Re: MD The individual in the MOQ

From: hampday@earthlink.net
Date: Fri Aug 27 2004 - 01:54:03 BST

  • Next message: Mark Steven Heyman: "RE: MD The individual in the MOQ"

    Ham Priday to Paul Holden and David Morey
    Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:50 PM
    Subject: Re: MD The individual in the MOQ

    Paul said:
    > I think the MOQ departs from Jaspers and Priday by referring to "the
    > Comprehensive" as Quality, as it regards "being," "God," and "Essence"
    > as empirically unverifiable intellectualisations rather than the
    > experience of Quality itself.

    David said:
    > I do not agree with your assumption that quantity
    > vs quality/value tells us anything about different
    > about what may lie beyond dasein. We get evidence
    > of a totality beyond dasein as much from us
    > both thinking Mahler's music is beautiful as we do
    > from agreeing that we can count 8 pairs of socks.
    > Quantity vs quality does not confirm a difference between
    > primary & secondary qualities.

    I think you've misunderstood my reason for differentiating Quantity and
    Quality, as I try to do in my thesis. Paul, when I first set this
    distinction down on paper I'd never heard of MOQ and knew nothing of
    Pirsig's Quality theory. This concept was based solely on the fact that
    empirical knowledge consists almost exclusively of quantitative data. It is
    "universal" in the sense that everyone can agree on the numbers, units and
    dynamic properties by which we identify a thing's "beingness" or nature. In
    scientific observation, this is all that is required for a valid "result".
    (Even in "Qualitative Analysis" -- which I failed the first time around --
    it is numerical data that enable the chemist to determine the presence of a
    particular element.)

    Quality of the "esthetic" kind is something entirely different; it is a
    component of experience that is "sensed" rather than "intellectualized", and
    the way we sense it is not universal but varies among individuals. I decided
    to call this sensible property Value and to develop my philosophy of Essence
    around it. Actually, it was my more recent research on Value that led me to
    Pirsig and the MOQ. I observed that Value has nothing to do with an
    object's beingness but alludes to the reality beyond being. Our enjoyment
    of Mahler, for example, doesn't come from our cognizance of the arrangement
    of notes on a score pad or the musician's method of producing a B flat from
    his tuba. Value transcends all this objective data and has the capacity to
    inspire us in a way that objective data can't. This sensation, when it
    resonates with us, represents the "essence" of the music. Humans have an
    affinity for Value which largely determines the way we live and conduct
    ourselves. Normally, we only sense it "conditionally", as in a particular
    work of art, a lover, a joyous event, or some other "thing of beauty".
    (Value has a negative side, too, which evokes unpleasant sensations.)

    The fact that we can sense something that transcends the empirical world,
    whether we call it Value or Quality, easily leads to the conclusion that it
    is an immanent manifestation of ultimate reality (i.e., Essence or The
    Comprehensive). I have made that leap, despite its alleged
    "unverifiability" and lack of logical support, because I believe it to be
    true. For all I know, Mr. Pirsig believes it, too, but he has neither
    confirmed nor denied it Until he does, I maintain that the Philosophy of
    Essence offers a metaphysical hypothesis that is unique in post-modern
    philosophy.

    Essentially yours,
    Ham

    > MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    > Mail Archives:
    > Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    > Nov '02 Onward -
    http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    > MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
    >
    > To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    > http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
    >

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Fri Aug 27 2004 - 01:58:34 BST