From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sat Aug 28 2004 - 13:51:10 BST
Wim
At this moment I think
that what is at issue are our
values, and whether we can
start to address values that
embrace the best potential
we can aim for on this planet,
to see that we can aim higher
than we do currently, and that
the sq that resists us can melt
away and this can be achieved
by just walking away from this
damaging SQ. We need to help
DQ in creating new and better
possibilities. We need to change
our values, thinking, & life choices.
It is not easy.
DM
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wim Nusselder" <wim.nusselder@antenna.nl>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 6:45 AM
Subject: MD MOQ and The Ideal Society.
> Dear David M.,
>
> You wrote 27 Aug 2004 20:59:08 +0100:
> 'I could imagine a society where we spend/use/give
> our money/resources much more wisely & even
> pleasurably, but currently rather low quality behaviour
> allows people to accumulate money, etc'
>
> O.k., so could I, but then we are dealing with another subject. Not how
3rd
> level patterns of value maintain societies and how they evolve, i.e. how
DQ
> operates at the 3rd level. The subject is then how THE ideal society (i.e.
a
> symbolic representation of a society that doesn't exist) would look like
and
> how to decrease the difference between ideal and reality.
>
> How would it look like?
> As the ideal (a 4th level pattern of value) cannot be derived from
existing
> 3rd level patterns of value (the ideal describes a situation that doesn't
> exist), it must be derived from DQ and/or from the highest quality 4th
level
> patterns of value we know (the ones migrated farthest towards DQ). We only
> experience DQ situational (relative to a specific situation, a specific
set
> of patterns of value that give way to another set) and not absolute (as a
> final goal of all migration of all patterns of value).
> THE ideal society for everyone can only be formulated to the extent that
> everyone experiences him/herself as being in the same situation, as being
> part of one whole, i.e. to the extent that everyone identifies with
humanity
> as a whole. It will also still be situational. Every time our (humanity's)
> patterns of value give way to another set of patterns of value, we have to
> formulate a new situational goal, a new ideal.
> I can imagine a situation, when homo sapiens was still young, with low
> population density, small groups (societies) widely dispersed among huge
> amounts of natural resources, low average consciousness and few
individuals
> aware enough of the possibilites to use those resources for the
advancement
> of their society, in which accumulating resources in the hands of as few
> leaders as possible WAS the ideal. Now that has become an habitual pattern
> of value that must give way.
>
> How to decrease the difference between ideal and reality?
> 4th level patterns of value can only determine the direction of social
> evolution. They cannot force its pace. In order to answer this question we
> still have to answer the questions how 3rd level patterns of value
maintain
> societies and how they evolve, i.e. how DQ operates at the 3rd level.
>
> Is this a good answer to what you wrote 26 Jun 2004 13:47:09 +0100:
> 'I would like to see the case between equality and inequality argued from
> both points of view. I think both are inadequate ways of thinking.'? I.e.
is
> it a good way to distinguish and then combine/connect 3rd and 4th level
> perspectives?
>
> With friendly greetings,
>
> Wim
>
>
>
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