From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sun Aug 29 2004 - 22:16:49 BST
Platt and all:
Platt said:(This quote comes from the "Plotinus, Pirsig and Wilber" thread.)
DMB praises Pirsig and Wilber for . . . "correcting the misinterpretations
committed by scientific materialism, which has basically thrown out the
wisdom of the ages." Bingo. DMB has put his finger on the heart of
conservatism -- restoring "the wisdom of the ages."
dmb replies:
To be generous, Pirsig's respect for tradition and the accomplishments of
the social level does make him a conservative in some sense of the word, the
best sense of the word. But his stance is very far from the American
conservatives of today, who are rightly described by Pirsig as neo-Victorian
reactionaries, exploitive capitalists, church bigots and ignorant hicks. I
know that's harsh, but these are the demographic realities of the Republican
party and Pirsig's own admittedly insulting terms. And if I hadn't been
reading Platt's posts for years I might not see how dramatically this form
of conservatism colors the following "provocative" plattitudes...
Platt said:
In looking back over previous posts I noticed a number of provocative
statements that may lead to further interesting discussion. Anyone
disagree..?
-- Political correctness is a blight on intellect.
dmb says:
I think that if freedom of the intellect were the actual concern here, the
blight would be described in terms that more realistically reflect the
current social restraints on free speech and the near-criminalizaton of
political dissent. Platt's focus on PC is only consistent with his attacks
on anything associated with the left. But real-world impact of campus speech
codes is practically zero, while critics of the current "conservative"
administration are labeled as anti-American, as unpatriotic, as treasonous,
as giving aid and comfort to the enemy, etc., etc., by their "conservative"
supporters. Some dissenters have even lost their jobs over it, but is Platt
concerned about the real dangers to intellectual freedom or is he just
trying to score another political point? For our European friends and for
those who are not familiar with Platt's political leanings, the right has
been using political correctness as a rhetorical bludgeon the left for at
least a decade. Its all part of the angry-white-men thing. Apparently, lots
of conservatives are upset that its no longer socially acceptable to refer
to black people as "niggers" and such. Isn't it ironic that they feel
oppressed by the demand that they stop oppressing others?
-- Science isn't the last word on anything.
dmb says:
This is so very far from provocative that I genuinely wonder what the point
is in saying it. If you're saying science doesn't provide any answers to the
ultimate questions, I'd agree. But if you're saying there is something
better at determining the speed of light, I'd have to ask what's better than
science? If not science, who should have the last word on that particular
topic?
-- Beauty is closely related to Dynamic Quality.
dmb says:
I think this assertion is too vague to be meaningful. Are we talking about
the beauty of a naked stripper, a freshly painted dog house, an equation in
physics or my mother-in-law's garden? I get the impression that its way too
easy to misunderstand the MOQ and equate our instincts and attraction to the
surface beauty of things with loftier, less static things. I'd be interested
in talking about beauty in a more traditional philosophical way where
goodness and truth are included as in the days of Plato. I think this is the
sense in which Pirsig's assertions about beauty and aesthetics have to be
understood. I think his ideas about beauty are much bigger than Platt
imagines. It ain't about pretty pictures or famous paintings.
-- To put philosophy in the service of any social organization is immoral.
dmb says:
Here is another one that has unspoken ideological baggage behind it - or so
I suspect. This assertion is perfectly consistent with the moral codes
spelled out in LILA. Both point out that its immoral to assert social levels
values over intellectual values. In the sense that they are all violating
this principle, putting philosophy in the service of a social organization
is just like using science to support creationism or racism or nationalism
or any other social level ism. I strongly suspect that Platt reads it
differently and would like it to contradict the idea that an intellectually
guided society is superior to a social level culture.
-- Helping others can cause misery.
dmb says:
This one takes the cake. I'm fairly certain that Platt has the welfare state
in mind and that this is another case of using an assertion to attack the
left while failing to see the real world meaning. I mean, if Iraq isn't an
in-your-face-case of causing misery while intending to help, I don't know
what is. I don't know what could be more conspicuous.
-- Money is a measure of social values.
dmb says:
I can't help but wonder if Platt takes this to mean that poor people have
little social value and that rich people have a lot. I think the quote says
that money is an INDEX of social value and think of it in two different
ways. On a personal scale, it seems that one is dominated by social level
values to that extent that money is valued. On a cultural level, it seems
that offical money flows toward those individuals and institutions that best
serve society's values, while blackmarket cash flows toward the kind of
biological values that undermine society. I don't know, but these kinds of
distinctions help me live with the fact that strippers make more money than
teachers and jocks make millions while intellectuals remain chronically
underpaid and artists starve, etc..
Arms dealers make tons of money. Death is very profitable. What does that
say about our values?
Thanks,
dmb
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