From: ant.mcwatt@ntlworld.com
Date: Mon Aug 30 2004 - 16:30:54 BST
Thanks to everyone who had a shot at answering the viva questions which certainly made interesting reading in what people agree on and disagree on. One of these contributors was Robert Pirsig himself.
Pirsig's answers to the viva questions are pasted below together with my own answers. The principal difference that I can see between us is that I’d regard a subject as a collection of the four static patterns while he regards it as just the social and intellectual ones and I regard a table simply as inorganic patterns because I consider dead organic matter (such as the wood of a table) as inorganic. The first difference arises largely because of the ambiguity of SOM terminology (i.e. is the self equivalent to the subject or not?) and the second arises in how “biological” is to be defined (i.e. does it include dead plant and animal matter?). I think Pirsig’s answer on harmony (in reference to Poincaré) was a definite improvement on mine.
Finally, it was a relief that Pirsig also plumped for the Tao as being closest to Quality especially as Mark Maxwell correctly pointed out from my MOQ Textbook that Plotinus is the philosopher that Pirsig regards as being nearest to him.
Best wishes,
Anthony McWatt
________________________________________________
Pirsig’s Answers:
1. Is Quality more similar to:
a. Whitehead’s Process Philosophy,
b. the Tao, or;
c. Plotinus’ One?
Pirsig: The tao
2.a. There are at least seven terms for Quality in your thesis (e.g. Value,
harmony, excellence) how can they all be the same thing?
Pirsig: The question implies that synonyms are impossible or illegal, which
is of course not true. When a word has many synonyms it is a sign of its
importance.
How does, for example, a table relate to these?
Pirsig: A table is an object that for westerners provides higher quality
than eating or working on the floor. It combines two patterns of quality;
inorganic, (the molecules of the table) and biological, the wood of the
table. Social and intellectual patterns were required to construct it but
they are not a part of the table itself.
b. What is the observer and its relation to the table in terms of Quality?
Pirsig: In the Dynamic world (i.e. world of the Buddhas) the observer and
table are not divided. In the static world (the world of everyday life)
the observer is a subject composed of social and intellectual levels. The
table is an object composed of inorganic and biological levels.
3. If you kill the self then isn’t this a quick return to the Dynamic and
therefore a moral action in Pirsig’s MOQ?
Pirsig: For a materialist to ‘kill the self’ might mean to put a bullet
through one’s head, and for that reason Buddhist nirvana was regarded by
some early commentators as a form of suicide. The Buddhist reference to the
killing of the self however refers to a destruction of the illusion of the
self that exists in the static, culturally derived patterns of ones
consciousness. Suzuki Roshi sometimes referred to “little self” and “big
self.” When “little self” is killed “big self” takes over.
4.a. How does an increase of complexity lead to harmony?
Pirsig: When it solves problems that have no simple solutions. Modern
medicine is extremely complex, yet it’s results are far more harmonious
than dying of disease.
b. How can a Schonenberg Concert which is purposively disharmonic fit into
this paradigm?
Pirsig: Musical harmony is composed of notes that have a fixed mathematical
relation to one another. The harmony Poincaré referred to is mathematical
elegance that is not defined by any static pattern. When the MOQ refers to
harmony it uses it in Poincaré’s sense.
5.a. How does the MOQ improve on James’ pragmatism? How does this relate to
the Nazi Holocaust?
Pirsig: By avoiding the criticism of James that his pragmatism prostitutes
truth to the values of the market place. The MOQ says that the values of the
market place are a kind of quality but there is an intellectual level above
them that is morally superior. The Nazi’s stifled intellectuality.
5.b. How does this issue relate to the treatment of animals like pigs by
human beings?
Pirsig: If slaughter of pigs for food is what is referred to here, James’
practicality would seem to justify it, since it is certainly socially
practical. The MOQ might support this too or it might also support an
intellectual principle that any killing of sentient beings is evil.
6. Your thesis suggests that the MOQ states that we should be moral
essentially for future generations’ sake rather than being awarded an
afterlife or reincarnation. In this regard, what you would you say to
someone who said that they didn’t care about future generations?
Pirsig: That he is immoral. However the MOQ does not state that the sake
of future generations is the only reason for moral activity or even the most
important one. MOQ morality, i.e., right dharma, is an end in itself. It
is sometimes divided in to the written dharma of laws and codes, and the
unwritten dharma of justice, conscience, fairness and good will.
________________________________________________
McWatt Answers:
1. Is Quality more similar to:
a. Whitehead’s Process Philosophy,
b. the Tao, or;
c. Plotinus’ One?
Anthony’s answer:
All three are similar analogies but the Tao just edges in at front as it has more qualitative connotations to it. For example, as perceived in the Taoist emphasis on nature and especially being overwhelmed by a view on a mountain top (or being in a forest). I referred the examiners to the understanding of the Tao given by the Taoist monks cited by John Blofeld in his book “Taoist Mystery & Magic” as I feel that that their understanding of Dynamic Quality nails down the issue (at least, as far as a mystic entity can be “nailed down”).
2. 2.a. There are at least seven terms for Quality in your thesis (e.g. Value, harmony, excellence) how can they all be the same thing? How does, for example, a table relate to these?
2.b. What is the observer and its relation to the table in terms of Quality?
Anthony’s answer:
If Quality is everything then, by definition, everything must be a manifestation of Quality. The table is a pattern of static inorganic patterns, the observer is a pattern of the four different static levels and the relation between the two is an intellectual pattern derived from a (Dynamic) Quality Event.
3. If you kill the self then isn’t this a quick return to the Dynamic and therefore a moral action in Pirsig’s MOQ?
Anthony’s answer:
No, because in the conventional, everyday world such an action would reduce intellectual, social and biological patterns to just the inorganic and they would simply not exist (the exception being static intellectual patterns left by the individual such as written words) rather than being returned to the Dynamic source.
4.a. How does an increase of complexity lead to harmony?
Anthony’s answer:
Firstly, complexity is not a term employed by Pirsig but used in the thesis by me to help explain what is meant by being more Dynamic. Essentially, the latter is an increase in potential so while a brick has relatively little potential, a parrot (as illustrated in the footnotes) has considerably wider options and therefore increased Dynamic potential.
4.b. How can a Schoenberg Concert which is purposively disharmonic fit into this paradigm?
Because it’s purposively disharmonic. As such, it’s still intellectually ordered noise.
5.a. How does the MOQ improve on James’ pragmatism? How does this relate to the Nazi Holocaust?
James’ understanding of satisfaction essentially remains subjective and open to personal and cultural whim. On the other hand, the MOQ uses the scientific (and therefore high intellectual quality pattern) theory of cosmological evolution to grade values and therefore clarifies that the Nazi were wrong to destroy intellectual and social patterns on biological grounds.
5.b. How does this issue relate to the treatment of animals like pigs by human beings?
Pirsig defines a pig as a collection of inorganic and biological so if the Nazis had been gassing pigs (on the pretext that they were disease ridden, for instance – as in the recent foot & mouth epidemic in the UK) they would have been justified. However, if science indicates that pigs were found to be social or intellectual animals in the sense that human beings are social and intellectual (as parrots possibly are) then the treatment of them (by human beings) would have to be modified.
6. Your thesis suggests that the MOQ states that we should be moral essentially for future generations’ sake rather than being awarded an afterlife or reincarnation. In this regard, what you would you say to someone who said that they didn’t care about future generations?
Anthony’s reply:
Wouldn’t it be assuring to know that after we die there’ll still be Dynamic beings contemplating the universe which is essentially an item of wonder?
Examiner’s response:
Well, what if I didn’t care about this either?
Anthony’s reply:
Then you have a problem!
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