Re: MD MOQ and Logic/Science

From: ml (mbtlehn@ix.netcom.com)
Date: Wed Sep 01 2004 - 19:35:52 BST

  • Next message: Ilya Korobkov: "Re[2]: MD hierarchy of static patterns - coherence"

    Hello Scott,

    You got me thinking about something I've tried before, so
    here goes...

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Scott Roberts" < >
    To: < >
    Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 10:11 AM
    Subject: Re: MD MOQ and Logic/Science

    <snip>
    > [Scott:] I don't think one can infer consciousness from quantum
    > entanglement, but you are right to point out that there may be clues to
    > consciousness in quantum physics, in that one does find non-locality, as
    > one does in conscious perception. At least that is how I see it (sense
    > perception unites what is apparently spatio-temporally separated, which
    > implies that sense perception is not a strictly spatio-temporal process.)
    >
    > My own possibly crackpot view is indicated by the "apparently" in the last
    > sentence. I think that the unobserved quantum world is
    non-spatio-temporal,
    > and sense perception is the act of putting it into spatio-temporal form.
    > The error that causes the mystery is to try to understand consciousness in
    > terms of the products of consciousness, that it, spatio-temporal things
    and
    > processes. This would explain various so-called paradoxes of QM, like
    > wave-particle duality and the uncertainty principle, and of course
    > non-locality. Roughly, the unobserved, non-spatio-temporal reality just
    > won't fit into spacetime, and so we get this weirdness when we try to
    > understand it in spacetime terms, like 'particle' and 'wave'.
    >

    mel:
    Consider consciousness as at base awareness, "of-ness not here", as the
    sense
    of "here-ness" is pushed by new data, new pre-information.
    How is "here-ness" pushed by "of-ness not here"? By the discernable
    portion of the physical, initially photons, vibration, mass / energy, change
    in a
    level or intensity in a matrix or variation.

    Felt by reactive portions of "here-ness", the qualities of push-ness are
    stored to the capacity of the system united in here-ness. To the particle
    the quality of push-ness is stored as reaction, direction, and velocity. To
    the larger organization of particles, the push may alter topology, force
    rearrangement, break bonds or make bonds, enlarge or delete portions,
    as well. To systems of particles in dynamic balances, non-destructive
    push-ness may add or subtract from the dynamic balance of here-ness,
    and sacrificial or compensatory levels of balance arise.

    The tendency of physical organization of information (recognizable
    physical meaningful data) within systems of system in cascading interactive
    dynamic balance may yield extreme complexity in storage of the qualities
    of push-ness. Crystalline structures within depositional processes in
    geological provinces, photosynthesis in green plants, blink of the eye
    against too much brightness.

    For 'biologicals'; tropisms, instincts, learning, are patterns of stored
    recognition of qualities of push, built up over time as alterations and
    processes. In the animal, the recognition of qualities of push accelerate
    to the point of recognition of patterns of qualities as information stored
    and recognized as senses. Specialized discernability and detectability
    tempered by experience (memory of qualities of push) allows effective
    use of data as information in rapidity of response.

    Greater complexity recognizes greater ability to store information.

    Organization of information is compounded by pattern and connection.

    Pattern and connection give rise to information about information,
    abstraction.

    Abstraction of abstraction allows reflection.

    Reflection models information and models the modeling of information and
    recognizes a system as a discernable, differentable, defensible structure.

    Accumulations of abstracted abstractions are mapped to symbols and each
    possible here-ness of sufficient complementary complexity interpret and
    exchange them.

    Cogito ergo sum follows as an acceptable conclusion of such a system, which
    only works in the splendid isolation of a cathedral of the mind in imaginary
    separation. A model of comparative movement called time arises.etc.

    When the doors and windows of the cathedral are thrown open and the
    uninterrupted "here-ness" shines warmly from within, the fact of the non-
    division, the dependent discernment of "here-ness" from "of-ness not here",
    the unfiltered sense of push-ness gives rise to free action, flow of
    information
    unbent. Qualities of the static become the scaffold, the structure
    accreting around
    "here-ness", enabling greater ranges of the qualities of the dynamic to be
    perceived
    and used, as information or as action.

    Amen.

    thanks--mel

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    MD Queries -

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Wed Sep 01 2004 - 19:47:30 BST