From: hampday@earthlink.net
Date: Thu Sep 02 2004 - 07:22:47 BST
Ham Priday to Mel and Arlo
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004, 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: MD the individual in the MOQ
Since Mel has brought up Pirsig's "amoeba syndrome" again, I'll take the
opportunity to correct my previous reply to Arlo and expand somewhat on it,
then throw a question or two back to you.
Here is Arlo's original question:
> Pirsig mentions the idea of an amoeba responding to heat with simply an
> awareness of "low quality". Since the amoeba has no semiotic system (no
> "language"), can that amoeba ever know the concept of "heat". Man, with a
> semiotic system at his disposal, would respond immediately to "low
quality",
> but then would be able to represent symbolically this event with the word
> "heat". Thus, man can represent reality, but only with a semiotic system.
> If you disagree, how else does one do it?
I had answered:
> The amoeba feels heat just as man does. Excess heat
> causes pain, not a "concept of low quality".
> It is the pain, not a concept, that makes the amoeba react. This has
> nothing to do with the amoeba's inability to
> state his condition as a philosophical hypothesis. Feelings take
precedence
> over intellection, which is how both species have managed to survive!
Mel now adds:
> I would suggest that if you think about it sensation-wise, physically, the
> reaction to heat on 'your' part preceedes your identification of pain from
> the heat.
> The flush and rush of pain sensation and the realization of it as PAIN
> follow your retraction from the source of your discomfort.
> The "concept of low quality" seems a
> descriptor aimed at getting into this precognitive space, this reaction
> before cognition and identification.
> As you say, feelings take precedence over intellection, but how do YOU
> describe the reaction before cognition and identification?
Arlo reminded me that the amoeba has no nervous system, hence does not feel
pain. Actually, as Mel has noted, it isn't necessary for either the amoeba
or man to experience pain before reacting to a traumatic stimulus. In man,
the autonomic nervous system senses heat at the cellular level, causing his
hand or limb to recoil from a hot stove, for example, before the stressed
neurons have transmitted their status to the brain and he feels pain. I
haven't researched single-celled organisms, but would assume that the
amoeba's response to injurious temperatures and chemicals is due to a
similar mechanism. Nature has equipped all living organisms with "survival
instincts", whether they operate on a bio-mechanical or sensient level.
As for the semiotics of this response-mechanism, I plead ignorance. I'm at
a loss to understand Arlo's question: "can that amoeba ever know the concept
of heat?" Can either of you explain how a blob of protoplasm with no neural
components can be said to possess awareness, let alone "knowledge", of
anything? And, what leads you both to conclude that it should have to?
Semiotics was not taught in my college Philosophy or Logic classes. I've
been researching some articles based on Charles Pierce's work on the
Internet and, frankly, except for the fact that most conceptual thinking
involves word symbols, I fail to see how these "'representations" of
experience affect "primary" experience. How important is an understanding
of semiotics to comprehending MOQ? Perhaps you can enlighten me. (A plain
English definition for "mediate" would be a good start.)
Regards,
Ham
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