From: Arlo J. Bensinger (ajb102@psu.edu)
Date: Thu Sep 02 2004 - 16:22:41 BST
Greetings Ham, Mel, All,
> I haven't researched single-celled organisms, but would assume that the
> amoeba's response to injurious temperatures and chemicals is due to a
> similar mechanism. Nature has equipped all living organisms with "survival
> instincts", whether they operate on a bio-mechanical or sensient level.
>
This would be correct, it would be akin to saying (in my view) that the amoeba
responded to a Quality experience.
> As for the semiotics of this response-mechanism, I plead ignorance. I'm at
> a loss to understand Arlo's question: "can that amoeba ever know the concept
> of heat?" Can either of you explain how a blob of protoplasm with no neural
> components can be said to possess awareness, let alone "knowledge", of
> anything?
No, in fact this was my point. The amoeba can possess no "knowlege" of anything
because this requires a symbolic system to represent the "knowledge".
And, what leads you both to conclude that it should have to?
>
I think you have it backwards, we were both (I believe) argueing that the amoebe
"experiences", but that is all.
> Semiotics was not taught in my college Philosophy or Logic classes. I've
> been researching some articles based on Charles Pierce's work on the
> Internet and, frankly, except for the fact that most conceptual thinking
> involves word symbols, I fail to see how these "'representations" of
> experience affect "primary" experience.
I think the ramifications here (and Peirce is not the only semiotician to
contribute, in fact Vygotsky (who never used the word 'semiotics') built a
psychology around the fact that everything subsequent to that first, primary
experience, is mediated through symbolic artifacts. The importance of this
train of thought, and I mentioned how Pirsig supports this notion, is that: any
representation of reality is less than reality, and our representations are
structured by the socio-cultural values (made salient through language).
For example, to restate, the categorizations of "individual" and "collective"
are not real. The are categories that our particular culture deemed salient,
and so by virtue of our language, we "see" them and are fooled into thinking
they are "real".
In turn, we shape our thinking with these terms, it structures how we view the
world and create our philosophies.
Thus, what Peirce and Umberto Eco refer to as the "pre-semiotic" or
"proto-semiotic", Pirsig talks about as the "cutting edge of awareness", before
it is diced up and altered to fit the structures of our semiotic system.
To me, the ramifications relevant to this conversation (individual versus
collective) is to show that these are not separate isolated categories. They
are dialectically related. Certainly, biological individuals exist, but since
their "sorting sand into piles" is structured by the social semiotic (and there
is no escape from that, nor could there be), it is better to say, and I repeat
again, "man thinks through his culture, not separate or parallel to it".
We make artifical distinctions (individual-collective) to advance certain social
layer patterns, and these artifical distinctions (as can be seen in the works
of mentioned authors and contributors) shape philosophies to severe degrees.
How important is an understanding
> of semiotics to comprehending MOQ?
Everything from the direct experience of Quality, the pre-verbal, pre-thought,
pre-language expereince, etc,... everything from this moment on down to these
words in this email are semiotically mediated. My "experience" is filtered by
cultural and social semiotic systems that I have assimilated (and help
reconstruct).
So, you can discuss "experiencing" as separate from semiotics, but when you
attempt to put this "experience" into a philosophy (or any symbolic system), we
have to realize that it is altered and selected by our semiotic systems. We
"see" individuals and collectives because our language values that abstract
categorization.
Perhaps you can enlighten me. (A plain
> English definition for "mediate" would be a good start.)
>
"To stand between". How is that?
To others reading, sorry I've been so repitious in this email. I'm just hoping
it helps clarify things a bit.
Arlo
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