From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sun Sep 05 2004 - 19:13:20 BST
Ian and all MOQers:
We've moved on from media criticism and so I've changed the thread name.
Ian Glendinning said:
DMB I suspect I shouldn't have bothered, but here goes on the important
point ... (I'll ignore all your offensive accusations.)
dmb replies:
Offensive accusations? Well, I do find your style a bit frustrating and this
might be reflected in my response. I'm also shocked and horrified at your
apparently anti-intellectual attitude toward facts and logic, especially
given the bloody context in which we were discussing them, but honestly, the
only intention here is discuss the validity of your assertions, not your
person. Please take it that way. And I wonder what offended you? You don't
think I'm charging you with child abuse or otherwise talking about literal
babies, do you? ;-)
Ian said:
The point I made originally was exactly this - when making a political
decision, don't rely on science, therefore when debating such decisions on a
board like this, let's not trade syllogisms or pretend the answer lies in
logic. ...You are in fact agreeing with me, making the same point as me,
much as it pains you.
dmb replies:
That's funny. I don't even agree with your assertion that we agree. I'm
still not sure if I even understand your point, let alone agree with it. I
think you've incorporated lots of ideas into your thinking that are alien to
me, but this can be overcome by simply adding more detail to your
explanations, especially the meaning of the key words and concepts you're
using. As much as it pains you, this is what conversationalists do. Please,
just make yourself clear. Maybe it would help if we start small...
You've re-made your point exactly. You say we should not rely on science in
making political descisions. I don't just disagree with this, I am horrified
by it. The idea that logic should not be used on this board to discuss
politics also strikes me as quite wrong. And not just incorrect in some
technical sense, I mean it strikes me with a sense of horror, like something
valuable is being destroyed. I think these are very bad and dangerous ideas.
It mostly smells like postmodernism to me, but the effect is actually quite
regressive. It empowers the premodern, social level forces in their
anti-intellectual attitudes. I think you are asserting a kind of paralyzing
nihilism and that this is at odds with the MOQ. Again, I'm talking about
your assertions, not you personally. Please take it that way. In fact, I
hope that I've misunderstood and that you're not really saying anything so
negative about the intellect. I mean, you're not saying that logic, facts
and science are no better than illogic, groundless opinions and faith, are
you? You're not saying physicists are sheep-like conformists who bow to the
latest social tends, are you? You're not really saying that scientific facts
are meaningless in forming public policies, are you? This is what it looks
like to me and I certainly do not agree with it.
If that's your point, then I am horrified. If that is not you point, then
what is it?
Thanks,
dmb
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