From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sun Sep 12 2004 - 23:01:16 BST
Scott said:
His rhetoric, as you put it, removes the only way we can get at the
interesting stuff, if what Pirsig calls pre-intellectual is in fact
intellect writ large. Of course, a lot of spadework is required to show
this, thanks to most everyone's beliefs in naive realism (to some degree or
other) and nominalism, but it can be done. What Pirsig did was sweep the
problems of mind under the rug, which he had to do given these beliefs.
This makes his metaphysics untenable, indeed unempirical, not merely
incomplete.
dmb says:
Sweeps the problems of mind under the rug? The MOQ is untenable, unempirical
and incomplete? I wonder if you'd be willing to explain exactly what that
means. Maybe I've dropped into the middle of a conversation and missed it,
but I haven't seen anything specific. I suspect the trouble is actually with
your interpretation, not the MOQ. I'm guessing that you want answers to
questions that have been rendered meaningless by the MOQ, but that you don't
yet see that. Its just a hunch. If we explore your charges in specific
detail maybe we'll discover the value of my hunch. (Yes, I'm egging you on.)
Scott said:
The "capable powers that clearly exist prior to the 4th level" are, in my
view, the powers of the 4th level (which we have only a dim use of), which
makes the 4th level not "just another level". To deny that is more than a
bit of rhetoric. It is a metaphysical claim, and such a claim means that we
either will look in the wrong place to explicate those powers, or simply
not look at all (the supposed Zen response). So, morally speaking, we need
to resolve this debate before we can hope to move on.
dmb says:
Powers prior to the 4th level are the fourth level so the fourth level is
more than just the fourth level? No offense Scott, but would you please make
an attempt to be less cryptic and more clear? I have to guess what you mean
here. I suspect that you're trying to make a case that the pre-intellectual
reality is intelligent in some way. I'd guess you have a problem with
calling it "pre-intellectual" because that label seems to deny that
intelligence. Is that about right?
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