Re: MD A bit of reasoning

From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sat Sep 18 2004 - 20:07:07 BST

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    see below:

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Scott Roberts" <jse885@earthlink.net>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 2:50 PM
    Subject: Re: MD A bit of reasoning

    > David M,
    >
    > > Scott: > Yes, all assumptive structures are limited. What I disagree
    with
    > is
    > > the
    > > > idea that there is some really true universe existing out there that
    is
    > > not
    > > > an assumptive structure. To speak mythically, I would say that God
    > assumes
    > > > some structure, and that is how universes come into existence. In
    other
    > > > words, language writ large isn't about describing some non-linguistic
    > > > reality (as SOM would have it). Instead, all realities are different
    > ways
    > > > for Intellect to express itself.
    > >
    > > DM: in the beginning: word or deed? Got to be
    > > something that is all these things: pattern, event, awareness,
    > > love, value....
    >
    > On the God-level (I am assuming) word is deed, deed is word, thinking,
    > willing, feeling, perceiving are all the same acts.
    >
    > >
    > >
    > > >
    > > > This is nominalism, which I reject. Where did the ability to abstract
    > come
    > > > from? It is irreducible, and presupposes universals. So language is
    > > > aboriginal.
    > >
    > > DM: yes, in terms of pattern & repeat & copy & template
    > > not in terms of spoken noises and black ink on paper
    >
    > Yes in terms of Peirce's thirdness. Call it semiotic if you want to
    > restrict language to spoken noises and ink on paper.
    >
    > > > Whom does it teach? I will grant that there exists consciousness that
    > does
    > > > not concern itself with me/not-me. Adult human consciousness, however,
    > > > does, and if it didn't there would be no intellect, no ability to
    > reflect
    > > > on SQ. So I see adult human existence as, in some very moderate degree
    > > > fulfilling intellect, that our intellects are repeating on a very
    small
    > > > scale the Intellect that makes realities.
    > >
    > > DM: Yes but also no, what about MOQ I think you need to grasp
    > > how we can split patterns up that are or 'are not' projected externally.
    > > There is internal SQ that is also problematically me/not me.
    >
    > I don't follow. Yes, we have projectable patterns and non-projectable (and
    > projectable but not projected), but I don't see the relevance to my claim,
    > that all is semiotic.

    DM: I was suggesting that the me/not-me that you use is problematic,
    is the me just awareness, is it the claim I was aware of these patterns
    being created, is it a claim that the I is associated with DQ?

    >
    > > > > Why is being aware of what I just thought different from being aware
    > of
    > > > the
    > > > > tree in front of me?
    > >
    > > DM: olny the tree is being projected into 3d external space time of
    > > our own (species) making
    >
    > That just describes the difference. The mind/matter question is: are there
    > two realms of awareness (dualism) or one (monism), and if the latter, why
    > does it seem to be two (or, why isn't monism obvious).

    DM: I thought dualism usually distinguished between aware subjects and
    unaware objects. I agree from a monist position we need to be able
    to explain how the localised awareness of individuals is possible
    but this does not entail a break with monism. Read is extremely good on
    this one. Get a copy of The Coherent Universe now, only £15. If
    you don't find it an interesting development on Sheldrake I'll
    buy it back off of you & put it in someone's Xmas stocking.

    >
    > - Scott
    >
    >
    >
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