Re: MD Pirsig and Geoffrey Read's The Coherent Universe

From: Richard Loggins (brloggins@yahoo.com)
Date: Sun Sep 19 2004 - 03:09:22 BST

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    Thanks, DM, I guess this research throws a long
    overdue respectable light on things like deja vu and
    ghosts for which SOM can not deal.

    Rich

    --- David Morey <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

    > Hi Rich
    >
    > Yes, sympathic causes explain the recurrence of
    > all SQ patterns. Read is like Sheldrake without the
    > fields
    > and pushing out the logic of the presence of all
    > past patterns influencing the present. He also used
    > his 2 forms
    > of causality to explain how experience is possible
    > and
    > the basic structure of the whole phenomenal realm.
    > Read's discussions of experience, causality, values
    > are
    > interestingly similar to Pirsig. I will post some
    > quotes later.
    > He certainly looks on SOM as causing an obstacle
    > to human knowledge.
    >
    > DM
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "Richard Loggins" <brloggins@yahoo.com>
    > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 3:05 PM
    > Subject: Re: MD Pirsig and Geoffrey Read's The
    > Coherent Universe
    >
    >
    > > Hi David M,
    > > According to Read, Do sympathic causals happen
    > even
    > > without human minds, or is it intrnsic to reality
    > > apart from human memory? I started to read that
    > link
    > > you provided that has the first few chapters of
    > his
    > > book. Very inspiring stuff, this, but a little
    > hard
    > > going at times. I think I see some connection to
    > the
    > > MOQ, but could you spell that out as you see it?
    > > Thanks!!
    > > Rich
    > >
    > > --- David Morey <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk>
    > wrote:
    > >
    > > > Hi all
    > > >
    > > > In a book about the approach to
    > > > philosophy and science of the British
    > philosopher
    > > > and mathematics lecturer Geoffrey Read called
    > > > The Coherent Universe, the relationship between
    > > > patterns and causality are discussed in an
    > > > interesting
    > > > way that I suggest closely relate to and expand
    > upon
    > > > those of Pirsig. Read suggests two ways in which
    > > > patterns
    > > > are causally related. Firstly patterns interact
    > with
    > > > each
    > > > other due to spacial proximity. This he calls
    > > > proximate
    > > > causality and is the sort of external, 3d
    > time-space
    > > > causality that we are all familiar with.
    > Patterns
    > > > are clearly
    > > > organised into numerous local associations, each
    > > > pattern
    > > > represents a local organisation that at a
    > certain
    > > > level
    > > > has split itself off from all other patterns so
    > as
    > > > to maintain
    > > > its own internal integrity. When these localised
    > > > expressions
    > > > of what are clearly universal patterns interact
    > with
    > > > each other
    > > > they may conflict or be brought under the
    > coherent
    > > > influence
    > > > of a less localised pattern. But it seems
    > obvious to
    > > > Read that
    > > > there is a form of non-spacial causality that
    > > > influences all
    > > > current patterns. This causality occurs between
    > > > patterns that are
    > > > not spacially related but related in terms of
    > > > similarity of pattern.
    > > > This he calls sympathic causality, where similar
    > > > patterns in the past
    > > > influence and bring about the internal
    > > > organisational capacity
    > > > of current patterns. It is the interaction of
    > > > proximate and sympathic
    > > > causality that brings about the complex
    > properties
    > > > of all
    > > > experience. Human experience is made possible by
    > > > both
    > > > the dynamic influence of an ever changing
    > > > arrangement of patterns in the
    > > > space-time framework, plus the ever present
    > > > influence of
    > > > all past patterns. Clearly experience is only
    > > > possible via the
    > > > interaction of these two aspects of SQ. We have
    > > > complex experience
    > > > because we are able to re-cognise patterns in
    > the
    > > > so-called external world
    > > > because we have the pattern already loggged in
    > the
    > > > sympathic internal
    > > > world. This distinction with respect to 2
    > different
    > > > ways SQ patterns
    > > > interact accounts for why we have both an
    > internal
    > > > and external world
    > > > within the larger whole of all experience. It is
    > > > this interaction between
    > > > present and past patterns that account for the
    > > > duration essential to
    > > > understand both intelligrnce & experience, as
    > Scott
    > > > has pointed out.
    > > > Once again I recommend reading The Coherent
    > Universe
    > > > available
    > > > at amazon.co.uk i.e. UK only.
    > > >
    > > > regards
    > > > David Morey
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
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