From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sun Sep 19 2004 - 14:50:31 BST
Hi Rich
Read does talk about these things but I think
SOM has a lot of problems with explaining everyday
experience. Read says that if we imagine the past as
an ocean the brain is designed to still the disturbances
and distraction of the surface movements so that we can
penetrate the surface and look back into the past as a
means of organising the present.
DM
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Loggins" <brloggins@yahoo.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 3:09 AM
Subject: Re: MD Pirsig and Geoffrey Read's The Coherent Universe
> Thanks, DM, I guess this research throws a long
> overdue respectable light on things like deja vu and
> ghosts for which SOM can not deal.
>
> Rich
>
>
> --- David Morey <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Hi Rich
> >
> > Yes, sympathic causes explain the recurrence of
> > all SQ patterns. Read is like Sheldrake without the
> > fields
> > and pushing out the logic of the presence of all
> > past patterns influencing the present. He also used
> > his 2 forms
> > of causality to explain how experience is possible
> > and
> > the basic structure of the whole phenomenal realm.
> > Read's discussions of experience, causality, values
> > are
> > interestingly similar to Pirsig. I will post some
> > quotes later.
> > He certainly looks on SOM as causing an obstacle
> > to human knowledge.
> >
> > DM
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Richard Loggins" <brloggins@yahoo.com>
> > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 3:05 PM
> > Subject: Re: MD Pirsig and Geoffrey Read's The
> > Coherent Universe
> >
> >
> > > Hi David M,
> > > According to Read, Do sympathic causals happen
> > even
> > > without human minds, or is it intrnsic to reality
> > > apart from human memory? I started to read that
> > link
> > > you provided that has the first few chapters of
> > his
> > > book. Very inspiring stuff, this, but a little
> > hard
> > > going at times. I think I see some connection to
> > the
> > > MOQ, but could you spell that out as you see it?
> > > Thanks!!
> > > Rich
> > >
> > > --- David Morey <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all
> > > >
> > > > In a book about the approach to
> > > > philosophy and science of the British
> > philosopher
> > > > and mathematics lecturer Geoffrey Read called
> > > > The Coherent Universe, the relationship between
> > > > patterns and causality are discussed in an
> > > > interesting
> > > > way that I suggest closely relate to and expand
> > upon
> > > > those of Pirsig. Read suggests two ways in which
> > > > patterns
> > > > are causally related. Firstly patterns interact
> > with
> > > > each
> > > > other due to spacial proximity. This he calls
> > > > proximate
> > > > causality and is the sort of external, 3d
> > time-space
> > > > causality that we are all familiar with.
> > Patterns
> > > > are clearly
> > > > organised into numerous local associations, each
> > > > pattern
> > > > represents a local organisation that at a
> > certain
> > > > level
> > > > has split itself off from all other patterns so
> > as
> > > > to maintain
> > > > its own internal integrity. When these localised
> > > > expressions
> > > > of what are clearly universal patterns interact
> > with
> > > > each other
> > > > they may conflict or be brought under the
> > coherent
> > > > influence
> > > > of a less localised pattern. But it seems
> > obvious to
> > > > Read that
> > > > there is a form of non-spacial causality that
> > > > influences all
> > > > current patterns. This causality occurs between
> > > > patterns that are
> > > > not spacially related but related in terms of
> > > > similarity of pattern.
> > > > This he calls sympathic causality, where similar
> > > > patterns in the past
> > > > influence and bring about the internal
> > > > organisational capacity
> > > > of current patterns. It is the interaction of
> > > > proximate and sympathic
> > > > causality that brings about the complex
> > properties
> > > > of all
> > > > experience. Human experience is made possible by
> > > > both
> > > > the dynamic influence of an ever changing
> > > > arrangement of patterns in the
> > > > space-time framework, plus the ever present
> > > > influence of
> > > > all past patterns. Clearly experience is only
> > > > possible via the
> > > > interaction of these two aspects of SQ. We have
> > > > complex experience
> > > > because we are able to re-cognise patterns in
> > the
> > > > so-called external world
> > > > because we have the pattern already loggged in
> > the
> > > > sympathic internal
> > > > world. This distinction with respect to 2
> > different
> > > > ways SQ patterns
> > > > interact accounts for why we have both an
> > internal
> > > > and external world
> > > > within the larger whole of all experience. It is
> > > > this interaction between
> > > > present and past patterns that account for the
> > > > duration essential to
> > > > understand both intelligrnce & experience, as
> > Scott
> > > > has pointed out.
> > > > Once again I recommend reading The Coherent
> > Universe
> > > > available
> > > > at amazon.co.uk i.e. UK only.
> > > >
> > > > regards
> > > > David Morey
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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