Re: MD On Faith

From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sat Oct 30 2004 - 22:40:10 BST

  • Next message: Platt Holden: "Re: MD Where does quality reside?"

    Hi Mel

    Not keen on the word faith really. But we have to accept all sorts of
    experiences reported to us by others. We draw a line somewhere between trust
    and the too fantastic, based on examples of where the fantastic prove true
    (yes the world is round) and where the truth proves to be crazy (so there is
    no ether).

    DM
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "ml" <mbtlehn@ix.netcom.com>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 3:00 AM
    Subject: Re: MD On Faith

    > David,
    >
    > thanks...
    >
    > any thoughts on second hand faith?
    >
    > thanks--mel
    >
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "David Morey" <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk>
    > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    > Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 12:57 PM
    > Subject: Re: MD On Faith
    >
    >
    >> Mel
    >>
    >> Nice post, good to see thoughts with examples.
    >>
    >> DM
    >>
    >>
    >> ----- Original Message -----
    >> From: "ml" <mbtlehn@ix.netcom.com>
    >> To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    >> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 7:29 AM
    >> Subject: Re: MD On Faith
    >>
    >>
    >> > Hello Platt:
    >> > <snip
    >> >> > <Platt Said:>
    >> >> > "Pirsig describes faith as "a willingness to believe in falsehoods."
    >> >> >
    >> >> > He also says that it's "possible for more than one set of truths to
    >> > exist."
    >> >> >
    >> >> > So how does he distinguish a truth from a falsehood?
    >> >> >
    >> >> > If, as he said, one should choose truth on the basis of its quality,
    >> > like
    >> >> > choosing paintings in a gallery, then truth becomes a matter of
    >> >> > personal
    >> >> > belief. And so, logically, do falsehoods.
    >> >> >
    >> >> > Perhaps someone will explain this apparent contradiction. Why is
    > faith
    >> > in
    >> >> > what's true any different than faith in what's false?."
    >> >> >
    >> >
    >> > mel:
    >> > I wonder if the answer to the apparent contradiction
    >> > is right in what you've shown above...
    >> >
    >> > statement two: ...more than one set of truths...as it implies
    >> > as you've said "personal belief", but taken one step it may
    >> > be that it applies to personal experience. You have faith
    >> > in what you have experienced as real, as being true, and
    >> > likewise each of us assume truth to our own experience of
    >> > what is real in our lives.
    >> >
    >> > So, the false part comes in the inability to share another's
    >> > "personal belief" as outgrowth of another's experience. If
    >> > we ungraciously press our belief in lieu of discovery on
    >> > another they are forced to bear a false "truth", because they
    >> > have not attained it.
    >> >
    >> > put another way...a man who studies thought for decades
    >> > and finds a flash of sustained dynamic clarity, a flood of
    >> > quality in the structure of what he has prepared in his mind
    >> > and which prepared him in experience, then for him there is
    >> > immense high value. To a student decades later, the degraded
    >> > and burdened extract as taught in a university department may
    >> > be a low quality experience yielding naught.
    >> >
    >> > Similarly a guest at Ryoanji may drop through the entire world
    >> > as everything becomes other than itself and undivided insight
    >> > in Dynamic Quality brings everything together into just what it is.
    >> > But to the woman in a Northeast dojo who feels violated by her
    >> > fellow travelers will find in the resulant tradition a sham of no
    >> > quality.
    >> >
    >> > A holy man in a mosque may dissappear into surrender and
    >> > life bcomes purity, yet the later degraded madrasa of a distant
    >> > student twists impressionable youth into worshipers of
    >> > destruction, givers of pain.
    >> >
    >> > Endless possible examples of one gets it and there is no
    >> > successful transfer to another's experience. The faith in one
    >> > does not yeild truth in another...following the empty form will
    >> > however bring falsehood.
    >> >
    >> > just a thought.
    >> >
    >> > thanks--mel
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
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    >>
    >>
    >>
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