Re: MD On Faith

From: ml (mbtlehn@ix.netcom.com)
Date: Fri Oct 29 2004 - 03:00:46 BST

  • Next message: ml: "Re: MD On Faith"

    David,

    thanks...

    any thoughts on second hand faith?

    thanks--mel

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "David Morey" <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 12:57 PM
    Subject: Re: MD On Faith

    > Mel
    >
    > Nice post, good to see thoughts with examples.
    >
    > DM
    >
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "ml" <mbtlehn@ix.netcom.com>
    > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    > Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 7:29 AM
    > Subject: Re: MD On Faith
    >
    >
    > > Hello Platt:
    > > <snip
    > >> > <Platt Said:>
    > >> > "Pirsig describes faith as "a willingness to believe in falsehoods."
    > >> >
    > >> > He also says that it's "possible for more than one set of truths to
    > > exist."
    > >> >
    > >> > So how does he distinguish a truth from a falsehood?
    > >> >
    > >> > If, as he said, one should choose truth on the basis of its quality,
    > > like
    > >> > choosing paintings in a gallery, then truth becomes a matter of
    > >> > personal
    > >> > belief. And so, logically, do falsehoods.
    > >> >
    > >> > Perhaps someone will explain this apparent contradiction. Why is
    faith
    > > in
    > >> > what's true any different than faith in what's false?."
    > >> >
    > >
    > > mel:
    > > I wonder if the answer to the apparent contradiction
    > > is right in what you've shown above...
    > >
    > > statement two: ...more than one set of truths...as it implies
    > > as you've said "personal belief", but taken one step it may
    > > be that it applies to personal experience. You have faith
    > > in what you have experienced as real, as being true, and
    > > likewise each of us assume truth to our own experience of
    > > what is real in our lives.
    > >
    > > So, the false part comes in the inability to share another's
    > > "personal belief" as outgrowth of another's experience. If
    > > we ungraciously press our belief in lieu of discovery on
    > > another they are forced to bear a false "truth", because they
    > > have not attained it.
    > >
    > > put another way...a man who studies thought for decades
    > > and finds a flash of sustained dynamic clarity, a flood of
    > > quality in the structure of what he has prepared in his mind
    > > and which prepared him in experience, then for him there is
    > > immense high value. To a student decades later, the degraded
    > > and burdened extract as taught in a university department may
    > > be a low quality experience yielding naught.
    > >
    > > Similarly a guest at Ryoanji may drop through the entire world
    > > as everything becomes other than itself and undivided insight
    > > in Dynamic Quality brings everything together into just what it is.
    > > But to the woman in a Northeast dojo who feels violated by her
    > > fellow travelers will find in the resulant tradition a sham of no
    > > quality.
    > >
    > > A holy man in a mosque may dissappear into surrender and
    > > life bcomes purity, yet the later degraded madrasa of a distant
    > > student twists impressionable youth into worshipers of
    > > destruction, givers of pain.
    > >
    > > Endless possible examples of one gets it and there is no
    > > successful transfer to another's experience. The faith in one
    > > does not yeild truth in another...following the empty form will
    > > however bring falsehood.
    > >
    > > just a thought.
    > >
    > > thanks--mel
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
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