From: Richard Loggins (brloggins@yahoo.com)
Date: Thu Nov 04 2004 - 16:00:51 GMT
Hi Ham,
ham:
"I find it it impossible to think of Quality existing independently of an
observer."
You are still hung up on the conventional meaning of quality, which is a bit different from Quality. Think of it more in terms of your Essence.
ham:
"The most immediate problem that presents itself is Pirsig's splitting of
Quality into Static and Dynamic types. This may be necessary to account for
evolutionary processes of Nature, but a differentiated agent cannot
logically be a primary source. Once you introduce a change in the source,
it is no longer primary, and you are obliged to answer what causes the
change."
There is some disagreement within the MoQ community as to whether Quality is someting distinct from static quality and Dynamic Quality. My position is that the split is merely definitional. There are really only two kinds of Quality, Dynamic and static, and Dynamic Quality is the primary source. When we refer to Quality, very often we mean to say Dynamic Quality, which can useually be properly inferred by context, but sometimes it is confusing.
ham:
"I've quoted SODV extensively on my website, including Pirsig's assertion
that "the world is composed of three things: mind, matter and Quality." If
this trinity is Pirsig's essential reality, obviously Quality cannot be both
a constituent and the source of it. In this same paper he also substitutes
Value for cause, giving the example: "'A causes B' can be better said as 'B
values precondition A'." (I have never been able to learn, either from the
author himself or your MOQ members, precisely how Value is distinguished
from Quality.) But now our list of essential MOQ terms encompasses two
types of Quality, plus mind, matter, and Value. Which of these, pray tell,
is the primary source?"
There is no distinction between value and Quality. They are synonyms. Of the three terms Quality, mind, and matter, Quality (Dynamic Quality) is the primary source. Mind and matter are kinds of static quality.
ham:
"But inasmuch as Pirsig uses DQ to explain or identify evolutionary patterns
and cultural changes, all of which are differentially distinct, he has
violated his own definition."
Pirsig's use of the term evolution encompasses culture. He doesn't think that DQ is different for changes that occur in different kinds of things.
Rich
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