From: Scott Roberts (jse885@earthlink.net)
Date: Mon Nov 08 2004 - 21:55:57 GMT
(It looks like a bunch of messages got lost yesterday, so this is a re-send. Apologies if the original shows up later)
DMB,
I agree with all of this...
> dmb says:
> I think Arlo is reading it right. Ten of eleven states passed a ban on gay
> marriage. The Republicans in Congress proposed a constitutional amendment to
> do the same during this campaign season and mail was sent out to voters
> warning them that liberals were going to ban the bible and allow gay
> marriage. The conservatives see it as a triumph of morals over vice, but
> from an intellecual perspective, it is a denial of equal protection under
> the law, a denial of the rights of a certain class of citizens and as such
> is illegal and immoral. From that perspective its a case of traditional
> values in conflict with intellectual values. The conservatives THINK they
> are putting "morals" over "sin", but they're actually putting religious
> beliefs over individual rights.
>
> Its interesting that the kind of vice, or social pathology if you prefer,
> that the right is most concerned with also happens to be the kind of social
> pathology that most affects conservatives. Haven't you ever noticed how its
> the self-righteous moralizers who end up being exposed for some such vice?
> Bill Bennett and gambling, Jim Baker and sex, Bill O'Reily and sex, Rush
> Limbaugh and drugs. Its is real pattern in the larger society, not just
> anecdotal evidence from celebrities. It only makes sense. Why would such
> moral issues be of concern if they weren't grappeling with already. That's
> what makes them resonate with such urgency for some and why it seems so
> real. And I suppose that an intellectually oriented person has more or less
> learned to manage such issues. Let's call it self possession, one who is not
> ruled by the body's appitites or desires.
>
> But its more than that. Not only are there a whole host of similarly
> confused beliefs on the part of the "morals" crowd, it also goes hand in
> hand with othe social level attitudes about the world. In the larger
> picture, the present conservative ideology also includes a kind of
> belligerant nationalism, an intolerance of dissent, a penchant for secrecy,
> a unilateral militarism that is contemptuous of international law and
> international agreements and some other elements that scare the living shit
> out of me. I think we are looking down the barrel of some kind of
> Christo-fascism. And now he thinks he has a mandate.
But then you conclude:
Oh God, please save us
> from the christians!
Are you unaware that millions of American Christians dislike Bush as much as you do, support gay rights, are against the war in Iraq and the Patriot Act, etc. etc.? Would it have been so hard to insert a qualifier in your statement, such as "fundamentalist" or "right-wing"?
- Scott
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