Re: MD terror & religion

From: Ian Glendinning (ian@psybertron.org)
Date: Sun Nov 07 2004 - 13:27:55 GMT

  • Next message: Scott Roberts: "RE: MD Wisconsin School OKs Creationism Teaching"

    I still don't see any mysticism David.
    DQ is what you "recognise" between the (currently, temporarily, statically
    latched) SQ.

    You "recognise" it because it looks consistent with your existing knowledge
    and experience, fits and forms a useful predictive model.
    Common sense, I call it. Pragmatism if you want a label.
    Same as it ever was.

    Ian

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "David Morey" <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 1:47 PM
    Subject: Re: MD terror & religion

    > Ian
    >
    > Leaving the gaps open, not covering them over,
    > staring into Nothing, recognising DQ, seeing the gapping holes everywhere,
    > shock at Being, is that not the truth of mysticism.
    >
    > DM
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "Ian Glendinning" <ian@psybertron.org>
    > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 11:36 PM
    > Subject: Re: MD terror & religion
    >
    >
    > > From my own obviously enormous knowledge of religions :-)
    > >
    > > I would say "Eastern mysticism" is an oxymoron.
    > > Zen is Eastern, true enough, but seems neither mystical nor religious to
    > > me.
    > >
    > > Mysticism ? No way. Anything you have not yet seen or understood is
    simply
    > > a
    > > matter of not yet having looked or thought enough. I'm not aware of any
    > > "mystical" explanations offerred to plug the gaps. Any gap in knowledge
    is
    > > simply that, a gap, an unknown, currently a mystery, but nothing
    > > necessarily
    > > mystical. Live with the gap until you find an answer, don't feel obliged
    > > to
    > > plug it with either faith or rationale (unless working assumptions make
    > > you
    > > feel comfortable, but then never forget it was just a working
    assumption.)
    > >
    > > Religion ? Philosophy yes, model or view of the world yes, but religion
    > > no.
    > > It does not require you to believe (have faith in) any axioms other than
    > > the
    > > possibility that you might one day know something by a combination of
    > > observation and introspection and a respect that those who have
    > > experienced
    > > and thought more may actually be wiser than yourself.
    > >
    > > Ian
    > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > From: "Sam Norton" <elizaphanian@kohath.wanadoo.co.uk>
    > > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    > > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 9:05 PM
    > > Subject: Re: MD terror & religion
    > >
    > >
    > >> Hi David,
    > >>
    > >> Don't know about attacked, my feeling was exasperation more than
    anything
    > > else. The particular quote
    > >> that got my goat was:
    > >>
    > >> "While Eastern mysticism has its fair share of unjustified belief, it
    > > undoubtedly represents
    > >> humankind's best attempt at fashioning a spiritual science. The methods
    > >> of
    > > introspection one finds
    > >> in Buddhism, for instance, have no genuine equivalents in the West. And
    > > the suggestion that they do
    > >> is born of a desperate attempt on the part of Westerners to make all
    > > religious traditions seem
    > >> equally wise. They simply aren't."
    > >>
    > >> I just don't think that's a defensible point of view - I can't see a
    > > better way of describing it
    > >> than as a prejudice, ie an opinion formed without a full acquaintance
    > >> with
    > > the facts of the matter.
    > >> Not uncommon, but not worth celebrating either.
    > >>
    > >> As for a fallible seeking of the truth, I'm with you completely.
    > >> Certainty
    > > is the scary thing - but
    > >> this guy was displaying more than enough certainty for the time being.
    I
    > > think there's a very
    > >> interesting and fruitful discussion to be had, linking the MoQ with
    what
    > > is good in the western
    > >> tradition, but that can only be had when these sorts of prejudices have
    > > been removed. For as long as
    > >> they remain there will be more heat than light - and that applies to
    the
    > > bombs as well as the words.
    > >>
    > >> Regards
    > >> Sam
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> ----- Original Message -----
    > >> From: "David Morey" <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk>
    > >> To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    > >> Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 5:17 PM
    > >> Subject: Re: MD terror & religion
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> > Hi Sam
    > >> >
    > >> > Interesting, do you feel attacked in this interview?
    > >> > Can you expand upon what is misconceived by the author?
    > >> > Personally I put a fallible seeking of truth before religion,
    > >> > and fear the potential violence of those who claim to 'know'
    > >> > although at this time this seeking places me outside of the
    > >> > secular camp and its built-in incapacity to face its own
    inadequacies.
    > >> >
    > >> > DM
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    > >> Mail Archives:
    > >> Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    > >> Nov '02 Onward -
    > > http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    > >> MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
    > >>
    > >> To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    > >> http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
    > >>
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    > > Mail Archives:
    > > Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    > > Nov '02 Onward -
    > > http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    > > MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
    > >
    > > To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    > > http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    > MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    > Mail Archives:
    > Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    > Nov '02 Onward -
    http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    > MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
    >
    > To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    > http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
    >

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Tue Nov 09 2004 - 17:33:20 GMT