From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Tue Nov 09 2004 - 20:41:43 GMT
never had a sublime experience then?
DM
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Glendinning" <ian@psybertron.org>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: MD terror & religion
>I still don't see any mysticism David.
> DQ is what you "recognise" between the (currently, temporarily, statically
> latched) SQ.
>
> You "recognise" it because it looks consistent with your existing
> knowledge
> and experience, fits and forms a useful predictive model.
> Common sense, I call it. Pragmatism if you want a label.
> Same as it ever was.
>
> Ian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Morey" <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk>
> To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 1:47 PM
> Subject: Re: MD terror & religion
>
>
>> Ian
>>
>> Leaving the gaps open, not covering them over,
>> staring into Nothing, recognising DQ, seeing the gapping holes
>> everywhere,
>> shock at Being, is that not the truth of mysticism.
>>
>> DM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ian Glendinning" <ian@psybertron.org>
>> To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
>> Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 11:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: MD terror & religion
>>
>>
>> > From my own obviously enormous knowledge of religions :-)
>> >
>> > I would say "Eastern mysticism" is an oxymoron.
>> > Zen is Eastern, true enough, but seems neither mystical nor religious
>> > to
>> > me.
>> >
>> > Mysticism ? No way. Anything you have not yet seen or understood is
> simply
>> > a
>> > matter of not yet having looked or thought enough. I'm not aware of any
>> > "mystical" explanations offerred to plug the gaps. Any gap in knowledge
> is
>> > simply that, a gap, an unknown, currently a mystery, but nothing
>> > necessarily
>> > mystical. Live with the gap until you find an answer, don't feel
>> > obliged
>> > to
>> > plug it with either faith or rationale (unless working assumptions make
>> > you
>> > feel comfortable, but then never forget it was just a working
> assumption.)
>> >
>> > Religion ? Philosophy yes, model or view of the world yes, but religion
>> > no.
>> > It does not require you to believe (have faith in) any axioms other
>> > than
>> > the
>> > possibility that you might one day know something by a combination of
>> > observation and introspection and a respect that those who have
>> > experienced
>> > and thought more may actually be wiser than yourself.
>> >
>> > Ian
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Sam Norton" <elizaphanian@kohath.wanadoo.co.uk>
>> > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
>> > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 9:05 PM
>> > Subject: Re: MD terror & religion
>> >
>> >
>> >> Hi David,
>> >>
>> >> Don't know about attacked, my feeling was exasperation more than
> anything
>> > else. The particular quote
>> >> that got my goat was:
>> >>
>> >> "While Eastern mysticism has its fair share of unjustified belief, it
>> > undoubtedly represents
>> >> humankind's best attempt at fashioning a spiritual science. The
>> >> methods
>> >> of
>> > introspection one finds
>> >> in Buddhism, for instance, have no genuine equivalents in the West.
>> >> And
>> > the suggestion that they do
>> >> is born of a desperate attempt on the part of Westerners to make all
>> > religious traditions seem
>> >> equally wise. They simply aren't."
>> >>
>> >> I just don't think that's a defensible point of view - I can't see a
>> > better way of describing it
>> >> than as a prejudice, ie an opinion formed without a full acquaintance
>> >> with
>> > the facts of the matter.
>> >> Not uncommon, but not worth celebrating either.
>> >>
>> >> As for a fallible seeking of the truth, I'm with you completely.
>> >> Certainty
>> > is the scary thing - but
>> >> this guy was displaying more than enough certainty for the time being.
> I
>> > think there's a very
>> >> interesting and fruitful discussion to be had, linking the MoQ with
> what
>> > is good in the western
>> >> tradition, but that can only be had when these sorts of prejudices
>> >> have
>> > been removed. For as long as
>> >> they remain there will be more heat than light - and that applies to
> the
>> > bombs as well as the words.
>> >>
>> >> Regards
>> >> Sam
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "David Morey" <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk>
>> >> To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
>> >> Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 5:17 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: MD terror & religion
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Hi Sam
>> >> >
>> >> > Interesting, do you feel attacked in this interview?
>> >> > Can you expand upon what is misconceived by the author?
>> >> > Personally I put a fallible seeking of truth before religion,
>> >> > and fear the potential violence of those who claim to 'know'
>> >> > although at this time this seeking places me outside of the
>> >> > secular camp and its built-in incapacity to face its own
> inadequacies.
>> >> >
>> >> > DM
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >
>> >
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