From: Sam Norton (elizaphanian@kohath.wanadoo.co.uk)
Date: Fri Nov 12 2004 - 15:56:59 GMT
Hi DMB,
Something was up with the website last weekend, a whole raft of my posts didn't get through
properly. This is a response to part 1 of your response, I haven't seen part 2. I'm going to focus
on one thing for the time being.
> dmb says:
> Keeping in mind that "Jamesian" is a label you've slapped upon me,
> not one I choose for myself. But basically yes, I think his list of
> qualities pretty well describes a mystical experience. .... The experience itself is at the center
of it,
> not unlike the way Pirsig's Lila has one as its center, but there much more
> to it than that... Its a view made possible only at the
> intellectual level, by an examination of widespread accounts. There is no
> such thing as the mystical experience, eh? That is pretty much an admission
> that you have not had one then, right? I mean, how could a person go through
> such a thing and NOT believe it can happen? This is definately the source of
> our disagreement.
As you know, the question of mystical experience is the big thing we disagree on. So let me first
try and understand your perspective, ie to put in my words what I think your point of view is, for
you then to agree or disagree. I don't if you're willing to focus this explicitly on your own views,
but I can only try.
You believe:
a) the central truth of mysticism is an experience;
b) this experience is common to all the great religious and mythical traditions;
c) as such it represents a 'common core' underlying religious traditions;
d) the religious traditions often prevent adherents achieving this mystical experience (ivy blocking
out the sunlight);
e) the tradition known as the perennial philosophy, or philosophical mysticism, is the intellectual
level exploration of this experience, which is free of the problems in d);
f) Pirsig is a philosophical mystic in this sense; specifically, the MoQ uses the 'levels' of
reality common to other descriptions of the perennial philosophy (and explored in more detail by,
eg, Ken Wilber).
Is this accurate?
Sam
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