From: PhaedrusWolf@aol.com
Date: Sat Nov 13 2004 - 00:29:24 GMT
In a message dated 11/12/04 1:39:49 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mbtlehn@ix.netcom.com writes:
Please don't mistake intelligence
and academic experience, at best
the opportunity to learn more is
given, at worst, the whole ability
to think creatively is destroyed.
As to the last part of your post:
the very structure of language is
subject-object, with a few verbs,
prepositions, articles, and modifiers.
So, escaping the type of thinking is
going to take a while.
Hi Mel,
Thanks for the kind welcome.
I have been reading as much as I can consume within the limits of my
lifestyle, and am quite impressed so far with this forum. Everyone seems to give off
the aura of being equal, which is very refreshing in comparison with some of
my past experiences with forums.
I agree with your thoughts, both on academics, and on subject-object, as I
feel it pretty difficult to escape suibject-object as it is imbedded in all our
languages, and we couldn't express ourselves without it. The successful
academics have been offered a higher stance in society because they can express
this subject-object well.
Mind and matter seem to be creations of man as well, and came about in
around the same period as subject and object. Mind has so many definitions that it
is difficult for me to grasp what we are speaking of when we say 'Mind over
matter,' or use the term 'Masterful mind' as I did earlier. Matter is simple;
you can touch it or observe it in some way.
When someone says there must be a masterful mind at the center of the
universe, could you not equate masterful mind with what Pirsig is calling Quality.
If you think of religion, God is the masterful mind, the Quality, that created
the universe. When you think on more scientific terms, you have to think
that the Quality that created the universe was intention or desire; maybe a
thought; not in the way we would see thought now, but this intention or desire to
become something other that what it is; maybe to become something more than
what it is. Quality would be the one string, or the nothingness that began
the universe, and grew into what the universe is now (if the strings hold
true:).
I realize that what I am offering is not on an intellectual level with what
Mr. Pirsig was offering, but in simplistic terms, if everything depends on
quality, then quality would be God, or the masterful mind that we are all
trying to connect with. This would be what someone referred to previously as "The
Source." The "Oneness" would be the attempt of connecting to the original
quality, the thought that has expanded into all the thoughts that now make up
the subjects and objects we speak of.
In this line of thinking, tangible and intangible would be no more than
words, as the tangible couldn't be without the intangible. 'The Good' and 'The
Truth' would be extremes outside the collective mind, and the combination of
good and truth would be the collective reality we live with.
The discovery of this Quality would have to come from the collective minds,
or "The Mind" that makes up this Quality. Maybe the reason we can't come to
grips with Quality is that we are all right, but at the same time, we are all
inadequate, as Galileo, Newton, and Einstein were all brilliant, just
inadequate to the dynamics that came after.
In the Gumball guessing contests, it has been found that the guesses vary
widely, but the collective of these entries came astonishingly close to the
actual number of gumballs in the jar. It may be the same with the answer to
"Where does quality reside?" It may reside in the collective thoughts of all that
make up the universe that we live in, from the worm to the man.
Please forgive me, as I can ramble on for hours without making any sense
whatsoever. I'll let it rest now, but my vote would be that Quality, as pondered
by Mr. Pirsig, does not reside anywhere, but everywhere. Everything does
depend on it.
Chin
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