RE: MD Wisconsin School OKs Creationism Teaching

From: mel (mbtlehn@ix.netcom.com)
Date: Mon Nov 15 2004 - 16:02:38 GMT

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    Hello Mark:

    There you go again, trying to interpret,
    when you merely need read.

    My points never engaged the plans of the
    U.S. Government. I expected better from
    you than a "Have you stopped beating your
    wife yet?" response.

    However, if you truly are interested in
    my opinion of the U.S. Gov't aggregate
    plans over centuries of policy, then
    having only some specific knowledge and
    a general overview knowledge of the rest,
    I will have to give the non-arrogant
    answer.

    The U.S. policy varied by tribe, by time,
    by administrator, by area, by treaty, by
    commanders in the field, by the wind of
    politics, and doubtless many other factors
    of which I am not now aware.

    Actual execution of policy is, historically,
    obviously more important than mere statement
    of policy. Execution is what HAPPENED.

    Often the reality of policy was reactive rather
    than planned. Local or opportunistic folks were
    often able to foment troubles that would get
    the army involved if the Indian Affairs people
    seemed to actually show some backbone and
    wish to abide by a treaty.

    At any point the left-hand / right-hand
    confusion was as real then as now, one
    department working at cross purposes to
    another.

    Any time a BIA or other government man was
    "too friendly" to the Indians, his position
    was apt to be targeted as a lobbying point
    for replacement with someone who would "better
    look after" the government's interest (which means
    the lobbyist's interests).

    Some folk were diligent, some were just typical
    political hacks. (Believe it or not even back
    in the historical age before Technicolor there
    were folk as torn by influence or conscience as
    NOW.) Their effectiveness varied and often the
    work of one was ultimately undone by a successor.

    To properly analyze this you will need to matrix
    out all affecting and effecting layers and levels
    of actors as analytical dimension and show each
    by intent - if stated, actual act, mediation or
    influence, and then you would get a real answer.

    It might take years and then you would not have
    throw away generalizations to use. As it is any
    "stance" has support and as generalizations
    smeared across history they are all wrong.

    Sorry, but the world is a complex place.

    thanks--mel

    -----Original Message-----
    From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
    [mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk] On Behalf Of Mark Steven Heyman
    Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 1:17 PM
    To: moq_discuss@moq.org
    Subject: RE: MD Wisconsin School OKs Creationism Teaching

    Mel,

    If my interpretation of your words is incorrect, then here's your
    chance to correct me, for the record. I'll ask you again:

    Do you, or do you not agree that the U.S. Government planned and
    carried out mass exterminations of indigenous Americans in order to
    acquire their land?

    If you do not agree, then please defend your position with historical
    references and sound reasoning, rather than evading the question with
    what I am sure you consider to be witty badinage.

    If you choose not to defend your position, then please do not bother
    to respond. I have better things to do with my time.

    Thanks,
    msh
    --
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