RE: RE: MD Wisconsin School OKs Creationism Teaching

From: Chuck Roghair (ctr@pacificpartssales.com)
Date: Mon Nov 15 2004 - 21:49:18 GMT

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    Hello All:

    Platt wrote:
    "...Whatever may
    be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar
    structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national
    morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."

    Washington answers the question, "What is the proper source of morality
    for a nation?"

    I wonder what your answer might be?

    Chuck responds:
    By the end of his life, George Washington owned over 300 slaves. He also
    cultivated marijuana. So, what?

    He was a man, like the rest of us. A man with wooden teeth for Christ's
    sake, flesh and blood and whatever else. A man without our benefit from the
    past 200 years of rational thought and scientific innovation.

    In the end, doesn't Science come closest to what's generally referred to as
    common sense? Especially when held up against any one of a number of
    religious dogma, metaphorical-fantasy-creation mythology in this case (ID is
    still Design)?

    A person's religion is most likely arbitrarily dictated by his parents'
    religious beliefs and behavior. How can public education be expected to
    make sense of such unconscious influence and in-breeding? Doesn't any
    discussion of Creationism naturally lead to a discussion of the nature of a
    creator? Whose creator will it be then, in Wisconsin? Somehow, I doubt
    they'll mention 'Allah.'

    That's the thing about Science and common sense. The 'common' part.
    Religion is devisive and confrontational and confusing for kids.

    It should be taught as mythology and fiction, as dated literary material,
    not as theory, historical fact or static reality.

    To answer the question 'what is the proper source of morality for a nation?
    (as opposed to religious indoctrination, I infer)', well I don't claim to
    have all the answers, but I think a good starting point is to encourage
    'Civility.' Civility explored through discussion and and study and, yes,
    common sense.

    Also, the "white man" needs to get over himself.

    Best regards,

    Chuck

    -----Original Message-----
    From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk [mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk]
    On Behalf Of Platt Holden
    Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 7:25 AM
    To: moq_discuss@moq.org; owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
    Subject: Re: RE: MD Wisconsin School OKs Creationism Teaching

    Ian:

    > I will defend anyone's rights to hold deist (a transcendent conscious
    > being) religious beliefs, if it helps them get through their life, but I
    > will continue to pour dismissive scorn on anyone who brings such a fairy
    > tale into argument and decision making in the real world that affects me
    > and my loved ones. Sorry if that appears arrogant and offensive, but it is
    > not my intent.

    I take it then that you would "pour dismissive scorn" on George Washington
    who is his farewell address wrote:

    "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity,
    religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man
    claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great
    pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and
    citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to
    respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their
    connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked:
    Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense
    of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of
    investigation in courts of justice ? And let us with caution indulge the
    supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may
    be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar
    structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national
    morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."

    Washington answers the question, "What is the proper source of morality
    for a nation?"

    I wonder what your answer might be.

    Platt

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