From: Scott Roberts (jse885@earthlink.net)
Date: Fri Nov 19 2004 - 03:22:10 GMT
Simon,
> Scott Roberts wrote:
> >My argument has been that value implies consciousness and intellect, that
> >they should all be considered three names for the same (non)-thing. There
> >is no value without appreciation of value, and no discerning of better
and
> >worse without intellect,
>
[SM}> "Intellectually better or worse" is an intellectual value judgement
which is
> not the same thing as value itself, there is always SQ involved in a
value
> judgement. Value, experienced in and of itself, with no static reference
> point is immediate and without judgement - it is just value and is not
> subordinated to anything mental or physical. This is DQ. You are talking
> about static quality.
[Scott:] There is SQ involved whenever there is DQ involved, which is to
say, always. DQ without SQ is meaningless. That's why I say that the model
we have that best shows DQ/SQ interaction is intellect. "Just value" is
meaningless. It has to be in reference to some state of affairs.
>
> that "static patterns of value" are not
> >appreciated as patterns, nor can they be compared to other patterns,
> >without intellect.
>
> Agreed.
>
[Scott prev]> This does not imply that such intellect is human
> >intellect, or even S/O-style intellect. I've said this several times, and
> >have not heard a convincing rebuttal, so give it a shot.
>
[SM] > Whatever variety of intellect you can come up with, there is no
intellectual
> comparison involved in DQ, there is nothing to compare it to, comparisons
> are always static. DQ is just value, experienced as such, no intellect
> required.
[Scott:] I didn't say there was intellectual comparison in DQ. The
comparison comes in as DQ is acting on SQ, creating new SQ. So my point is,
what was going on before there was a biological level, if not DQ/SQ
interaction, and what better model for it is there than intellect?
Otherwise, you are talking about a mindless, mechanical universe, and there
is no reason to say that Quality is universal.
- Scott
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