RE: MD Question

From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sat Jan 25 2003 - 04:44:33 GMT

  • Next message: Willy: "RE: MD Pirsig an artist - MoQ & love"

    Joey, Matt, Joao and y'all:

    Joey asked:
    I talked to my English teacher about Zen and the Art of Motorcycle
    Maintenance, and she brought up Noam Chomsky when we were talking about
    subjective-objective split, especially in the sciences. Does anyone know
    more about Chomsky's work and how it is relevant to MOQ?

    Matt said:
    Unfortunately, I don't know all that much about Chomsky (i.e. I'm not an
    expert on him), but here is what I know: much of his work in linguistics
    has been about a universal "deep structure" that is the same for all
    language users and all languages. On the surface, this may seem similar to
    Pirsig's description of all people universally experiencing Quality.

    DMB says:
    No, I think Chomsky's insights into language are related to the
    subject/object distinction in a different way than Matt suggests here. It
    has to do with the way the structure of language reflects the stucture of
    our minds. It has to do with, for example, the fact that correct sentences
    need a subject and an object. Chomsky says this is not an arbitrary choice,
    but reflects the ways in which we are pre-disposed to percieve the world.

    Matt said:
    Pragmatists are, of course, deeply skeptical about the existence of a
    "universal deep structure." How would we know? The linguists reply that
    we have to posit this deep structure or else there would be no way to do
    linguistics. The pragmatists, following Donald Davidson, reply that the
    actual learning of a language has nothing to do with a positing of a deep
    structure, so why should we continue with one in linguistics?
    Universalists side with Chomsky (and so might offer a universalist reading
    of Pirsig), while pragmatists side with Davidson (and so might offer a
    pragmatist reading of Pirsig).

    DMB says:
    I think Matt has misunderstood "universal deep structures" to mean something
    far different than what Chomsky is saying. Its not a universal principle
    that one "posits", but is more like an "organ" in the mind. If you're
    familiar with Kant's idea that all our perceptions are shaped by "the
    categories of the mind" then you already have a good idea what Chomsky was
    getting at. The analogy used by the Professor that taught me was a pasta
    maker. The stuff of the world is like a blob of dough and our minds shape
    that into spaghetti, linguini, or pasta shells or elbow macaronies or
    whatever. So what Chomsky is saying is that subjects and objects are the way
    we percieve things, not becasue this necessarily reflects the actual world,
    but the way we see it. He's saying that subjectivity and objectivity, me and
    the world are perfectly natural and totally anavoidable ways to see things.

    Hope that makes sense,
    DMB

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sat Jan 25 2003 - 04:45:51 GMT