From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sun Nov 21 2004 - 22:28:43 GMT
Simon, Scott and all MOQers:
"Pure experience cannot be called either physical or psychical: it logically
precedes this distinction." (Lila, 29)
Scott said to dmb:
Division is an inherent part of reality, not just of language and thought.
If there was no division there would be no experience at all. Nirvana is
samsara. The idea that experience before we think about it is undivided is
absurd. If there is anything at all, there is division.
dmb says:
I'm with Simon on this one. I think you are hopelessly dualistic and
repeated misunderstand Pirsig as a result. Your search for the evaluator of
the values is not a legitmate question, but rather demonstrates a
misunderstanding on your part. And the only thing absurd about the MOQ's
assertion that immediate reality is undivided is your inability to
comprehend this point. On this point, Pirsig is only saying what all
philosophical mystics are saying.
See, its not that patterns have value because some mysterious entity
"thinks" they do or whatever. That's just pushing SOM into ever smaller
corners of reality, projecting those metaphysical assumptions onto all
levels. But its not that particles express preferences ABOUT reality, its
that such preferences ARE reality, ARE the pattern of value.
Simon Magson said to Scott Roberts:
The search for something that observes something else i.e., exists prior to
and is the performer of observation, i.e., a subject is the result of
subject-object based systems. Why is it necessary for there to be an
observer?...
The question comes from the assumption that there has to be an observer and
an observed in order for there to be experience i.e, it comes from SOM. I
don't make that assumption, I just start with the experience of observation.
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