Re: MD People and Value in the MOQ

From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Tue Nov 23 2004 - 00:08:36 GMT

  • Next message: PhaedrusWolf@aol.com: "Re: MD Empiricism"

    Ian, I'm happy to consider you just a product of my consciousness, no more
    no less. :-)

    Platt

    > Platt - why use the pejorative words "figment of imagination" or "illusion"
    > ie artefacts, but by definition (of the chosen words) false.
    >
    > What is so wrong with the more neutral idea of self as a
    > "product of consciousness" ?
    > (Whatever consciousness is a product of, by whatever means)
    >
    > I'd just like to point out that when Pirsig was Phaedrus his "self" did
    > expire, cease to exist, it was no longer produced by "his" consciousness.
    > They're coming to take me away - Ha Ha.
    >
    > Ian
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "Platt Holden" <pholden@sc.rr.com>
    > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>; <owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk>
    > Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 4:28 PM
    > Subject: Re: MD People and Value in the MOQ
    >
    >
    > >
    > > Sam said:
    > > > > In Ann 130 above he seems (to me) to be _contrasting_ the MoQ with
    > > > > Buddhism and science, and says that the 'I' or the 'self' is "a
    > > > > collection of static patterns capable of apprehending DQ". In other
    > > > > words, there is a "thing" (ie pattern of value) which corresponds to
    > what
    > > > > we mean by 'person'.
    > >
    > > > > dmb says:
    > > > > CONTRASTING the MOQ with science and Buddhism?!? No. He's contrasting
    > the
    > > > > MOQ with Ayn Rand's Objectivism ....
    > >
    > > Sam:
    > > > So, you are arguing that RMP's position (that the I is "a collection of
    > > > static patterns capable of apprehending DQ") is the same as the
    > Buddhists
    > > > (the 'I' is an illusion), and therefore, logically, that "a collection
    > of
    > > > static patterns capable of apprehending DQ" is an illusion.
    > > >
    > > > Remarkable. As the man says, "you are taking an unusual position that
    > may
    > > > need some defending".
    > >
    > > I agree. This "self is an illusion" business makes no sense. How can
    > > Pirsig and the Buddhists deny they exist without existing? If Pirsig
    > > denies that when the "self" of his son died it wasn't real and had no
    > > effect on "himself," then maybe it's time to call for the guys in the
    > > white coats again.
    > >
    > > As Sam says, seems to me the people who have a lot of explaining to do
    > > are those who claim self is figment of imagination, like unicorns,
    > > fairies and ghosts.
    > >
    > > Platt
    > >
    > >
    > >
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    > >
    >
    >
    >
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