Re: MD Inequities, Morality and The MOQ

From: Mark Steven Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Wed Nov 24 2004 - 01:16:24 GMT

  • Next message: Erin: "Re: MD terror & religion"

    On 21 Nov 2004 at 17:39, Platt Holden wrote:
    > platt:
    > What's immoral about "inequities?"

    > msh says:
    > Inequities that result in one's inability to satisfy basic
    > biological needs seriously impede and sometimes destroy one's
    > opportunity for freedom. If such inequities are large enough
    > between a vast majority and small minority within a social system,
    > the social system is in danger of being destroyed if it does not
    > either enforce the inequities with violence, or change in response
    > to DQ to ameliorate the inequities. Since the violent solution is a
    > rejection of the DQ solution, it is immoral; and therefore allowing
    > inequities which may be ameliorated through DQ-inspired social
    > action is also immoral.

    platt:
    Where do you get the idea that DQ tells us "to ameliorate the
    inequities" and that the "DQ solution" is to rob Peter to pay Paul?
    If you can cite a reference in the MOQ where that's said, I'd
    appreciate it.

    msh says:
    Your reliance on the MOQ for biblical certainties is telling. Where
    does the MOQ "say" that the US invasion of Iraq was a DQ solution to
    the problem of terrorism?

    I see a similar desire for biblical simplicity in your allusion to
    robbing Peter to pay Paul, implying that there is no connection
    between Peter's wealth and Paul's poverty.

    A third point. It's very interesting that your demand that all ideas
    be supported by literal and direct reference to the MOQ seems to go
    out the window when you want to place the Individual at the top of
    the MOQ's moral hierarchy.

    My argument does not mention taxation specifically, although a form
    of progressive taxation may very well be one of the DQ-inspired ideas
    necessary to prevent the destruction of a society. As, for example,
    a capitalist society's implosion was prevented by the DQ thinkers
    behind The New Deal. And, please, don't tell me that Pirsig in Lila
    dismantles the specific ideas of the New Dealers. He does not.

    > platt:
    > The main premise is "It's OK for a person to keep what he has
    > rightfully earned in a free market."

    > msh says:
    > I disagree. This is the premise that is claimed, but a little
    > reflection on the workings of the so-called "free market" reveals
    > that it is a game who's rules are written by the winners, for the
    > benefit of the winners. Sort of like a chess tournament wherein
    > every time you win a game, you get to start the next game with an
    > extra pawn taken from your opponent. In such a system it's quite
    > possible for one person, playing by the rules, to end up with
    > everything.

    platt:
    Makes you wonder why the MOQ supports the free market doesn't it?

    msh says:
    There's plenty of MOQ support for a free market of ideas. Anyone,
    including Pirsig, who believes there exists anything like an economic
    free market is economically naive. Funny, this is one of those
    points I've made many times. So far, you've made no attempt to prove
    me wrong, and yet you constantly advance the Myth of The Free Market
    as if it is a sacred truth.

    Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
    --
    InfoPro Consulting - The Professional Information Processors
    Custom Software Solutions for Windows, PDAs, and the Web Since 1983
    Web Site: http://www.infoproconsulting.com

    "Thought is only a flash between two long nights, but this flash is
    everything." -- Henri Poincare'

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Wed Nov 24 2004 - 02:07:30 GMT