From: Wim Nusselder (wim.nusselder@antenna.nl)
Date: Tue Dec 07 2004 - 08:02:08 GMT
Dear Sam,
You wrote 3 Dec 2004 09:54:16 -0000:
'I think theology IS religious practice. By which I don't mean what goes on
in academic departments (necessarily, although it could easily be) but that
"theology is prayer" and prayer is theology. Journeying deeper into God,
loving God with your mind, however you want to describe it - that's what I
think theology is. So I think there is an underlying agreement here between
us, in the sense that it is not
"instructions for religous practice" that I am wanting to defend (understood
as academic abstractions) but the fruits of the journey into God. They don't
have to be determinative, but they can be illuminative.'
Fine, but it doesn't seem to square with the definitions of theology I find
in dictionaries. And yes, the fruits of other people's journeys with/into
God (or in the words of Gandhi's autobiography: "The story of my experiments
with truth.") can illuminate one's path. The problem is in canonization.
That's what creates static patterns of value and stunts mysticism and
'experiencing the music for yourself'.
My experience with Quakers and their relations with other Christian
traditions in the Netherlands (hardly any Anglicans indeed) does not prove
that 'there are more Quakers who are former Anglicans than the other way
around [and p]robably ... even more Quakers who are also members of the
Anglican church than Anglicans who left Quakerism...' in your country. It
just makes it more likely. My knowledge of the religious affiliations and
history of a fair percentage of Dutch Quakers seems a better basis for
generalization than your isolated experience with one Anglican warden who
formerly was a Quaker. I'm still curious for his reasons for leaving
Quakerism for Anglicanism though. Have you already asked him?
You finished with:
'No, I don't believe that ["social status" is the core value, the essence of
stability of 3rd level patterns of value (like "truth" or comparability of
symbols and symbolized is at the 4th level)] - unless you make the
definition tautological. I think it is one aspect of a broader spectrum of
social values. See my post on the "Self". I think the search for social
status is commonly understood to be egotistical (ie arrogant) but I don't
see all social level activities as arrogant, or driven by an arrogance.
Perhaps I am reading your point about "social status" too narrowly?'
According to my definitions of levels 'search for a value' supposes activity
at the 4th level (the 'values' one keeps in mind symbolize the actual
situation/experience strived for). Status at 'my' 3rd level (defined as
habitual patterns of value) is simply experienced as something 'Dynamic'. It
moves society forward towards ever better performance of collective habits
(in the competition between society and natural hazards and among
societies).
'Third level competence' in religion is useful for a people that lives in
direct dependance on nature: perfecting religious rituals supports the
seasonal cycle of work needed to survive as a group in specific natural
circumstances. Certain instructions for food preparation in Tora, Bible and
Koran originally had use to safeguard collective health (in circumstances in
which hygiene was lacking). I don't think we (in the Netherlands and Great
Britain) need religion for stability and survival of our 3rd level patterns
of value any more.
'Searching for values', yes, that is still useful. E.g. conforming one's
behaviour to a value like non-violence. But it is 4th level patterns of
value we are talking about then, according to me. What's at issue then, is
the truth of the statement that non-violence produces a better (higher
quality) society than violence. If that's true, non-violence is worth
'searching for'. It was in that sense that Gandhi was 'experimenting with
truth'. His religion was very much a 4th level activity.
With friendly greetings,
Wim
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