From: Steve Peterson (peterson.steve@verizon.net)
Date: Wed Dec 08 2004 - 15:34:39 GMT
Hi Scott,
This is an old one that I'm finally getting back to you on.
>> Steve:
>> The MOQ considers intellect subjective. I'm not sure what your
>> complaint is about the place for intellect within Pirsig's MOQ. I'm
>> sure you've been through this before, but would you mind summarizing
>> your view?
>
> [Scott:] The MOQ considers intellect to be the fourth level of SQ, and
> in
> later notes, Pirsig defines intellect as the manipulation of abstract
> symbols. Further, the self is defined as inorganic, biological,
> social, and
> intellectual SQ capable of responding to DQ.
sounds good
> Now, what is DQ? The MOQ says
> it should be undefined, but it seems to me one can say a couple of
> things
> about it. One is that it is creativity, that it drives evolution --
> it, and
> only it leaves new SQ behind. The other is that it is one, that is,
> there
> is not a DQ for the inorganic level, another for the biological, not
> one
> for Earth, and another for Mars, and so on. Now this may sound like I
> am
> reifying DQ, making it sound too much like God,
that's all fine with me.
> but as I see it that is
> already implied in defining the self as capable of responding to DQ,
> rather
> being itself DQ and SQ. And it seems to deny creativity to the self,
> and
> that is what I object to.
What if you tried a Big Self/small self thing? Creativity happens in
Awareness or DQ/sq or Big Self/small self relationship. Small self
isn't creative, but it is the self we can point to after the fact. When
we talk about *a* self we are talking about some set of static patterns
with the ability to respond to DQ, but when you think of your own
identity it is natural to object to that description since you don't
merely identify yourself with small self but also with Big Self to a
certain extent.
>
> A difference between the intellectual level and the other levels is
> that I
> can only observe the SQ of the other levels, but I can make SQ on the
> intellectual level. To some extent I have control of the SQ that my
> mind
> churns out.
The self can refer to many things as Pirsig pointed out in LC.
The volitional self refers to the intellectual level since rationales
for behavior are intellectual patterns. In fact I think that
self-awareness is the beginning of the intellectual level.
> Obviously not complete control, in that a great deal of time my
> mind seems to be running on automatic.
Pirsig suggests that rationales often come after the behavior like in
the hot stove example. I've heard that hypnotized people give
rationales for goofy things done under hypnotic suggestion. I think we
tend to overestimate the control intellect exerts over behavior.
Regards,
Steve
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