RE: MD Gardner on Pragmatism

From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sun Jan 26 2003 - 20:37:39 GMT

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    Matt and all:

    Matt said:
    But let me draw the lines clearer:
    DMB doesn't think the MoQ literalizes Quality.
    Matt does think the MoQ literalizes Quality.

    DMB says:
    (Standing ovation) Now this is clear. Thank you. But, actually I think we
    agree. It seems that we both think reading the MOQ in literal or absolute
    terms is a mistake. The difference is that you think this mistake is
    inherent, but it seems to me that is NOT inherent and that reading this
    thing properly is the responsibility of the reader. The author does address
    this idea at the end of chapter 29...

    Pirsig:
    The MOQ is a continuation of the mainstream of 20th century American
    philosophy. It is a form of pragmatism, of intrumentalism, which says the
    test of the true is the good. It adds that this good is not a social code or
    some intellectualized Hegelian Absolute.

    And way back in the middle of chapter 17 he writes....

    Pirsig:
    Science superseded old religous forms, not because what it says is more true
    in any absolute sense (whatever THAT is), but because what it says is more
    Dynamic.

    Then there is the distinction he makes between religious believers and those
    outside the belief systems in chapter 30....

    "If you ask a Catholic priest if the wafer he holds at mass is really the
    flesh of Jesus Christ, he will say yes. If you ask, 'Do you mean
    SYMBOLICALLY?' he will answer, 'No, I mean actually.' Similarly if you ask
    Lila whether the doll she holds is a dead baby she will say yes. If you ask,
    Do you mean SYMBOLICALLY?' she would also answer, 'No, I mean actually.' It
    is considered correct to say that until you understand that the wafer is
    really the body of Christ you will not understand the Mass. ... The main
    difference is that the Christian, since the time of Constantine, has been
    supported by huge social patterns of authority. ... That isn't a fair
    comparison, though. If the major religions of the world consisted of nothing
    but statues and wafers and other such paraphenalia they would have
    disappeared long ago in the face of scientific knowledge and cultural
    change, Phadedrus thought. What keeps them going is something else."
    (Pirsig, chapter 30)

    Perhaps these comments from the author do not satisfy, but at least we've
    found some common ground with which to discuss it.

    Thanks for your time,
    DMB

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