Re: MD The MOQ and Mysticism 101

From: Phaedrus Wolff (PhaedrusWolff@carolina.rr.com)
Date: Sun Jan 02 2005 - 14:14:10 GMT

  • Next message: Phaedrus Wolff: "Re: MD Is the MoQ still in the Kantosphere?"

    msh)But
    if you are saying that the "enlightened ones" have come to understand
    that everything exists in the human mind, with no external
    corresponding reality, then, yes, this is madness. Furthermore, I'm
    suggesting that the "enlightened ones" themselves do not believe
    this. The Dali Lama wears corrective lenses and sandals, after all.
    He must be trying to see SOMETHING clearly; to protect his feet from
    hot asphalt and real stones.

    So... you wanna fight about that?

    Chin)No thanks. I would rather find somewhere else to play.

    A man goes to the guru and asks; "If there is an elephant running toward
    you, would you run?"

    guru)"Yes. I am a part of that illusion."

    You seek enlightenment on the highest level, but you must react on the lower
    levels. You can know that even scientifically, nothing is proven to be real,
    but if you step into the street in front of a moving truck, you know that
    collection of particles and waves are going to be particles when they
    flatten you.

    Chin

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Mark Steven Heyman" <markheyman@infoproconsulting.com>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 10:12 PM
    Subject: RE: MD The MOQ and Mysticism 101

    > Hi Paul, dmb, and all,
    >
    > DMB, in a recent Kantosphere post, said:
    > The blindspot that's caused the disagreement between between Sam and
    > I (sic) has also caused a disagreement between Paul and Ham. I think
    > Westerners have to work to overcome it. I have to say that even msh,
    > who I seem to agree with on all practical matters, still suffers from
    > it too. In the West, those who assert that the world is an illusion
    > are considered crazy or worse. To the Western mind, one has to be out
    > of their mind to believe such a thing - at least for a moment. Cause
    > that's the trap. And in terms of experiencing the pre-intellectual
    > reality, losing one's mind is a terrible thing to waste.
    >
    > msh says:
    > I think I recognize the blindspot well enough to keep myself from
    > saying "that those who assert that the world is an illusion are
    > considered crazy or worse." If by illusion you mean that our minds
    > create our experience of reality starting from sensual input coming
    > from something "out there", then you'll get no argument from me. I
    > long ago recognized that our perceptions (phenomena) are necessarily
    > and forever out of spatial and temporal sync with noumena, and that
    > our glimpses of things-in-themselves are mystical and fleeting. But
    > if you are saying that the "enlightened ones" have come to understand
    > that everything exists in the human mind, with no external
    > corresponding reality, then, yes, this is madness. Furthermore, I'm
    > suggesting that the "enlightened ones" themselves do not believe
    > this. The Dali Lama wears corrective lenses and sandals, after all.
    > He must be trying to see SOMETHING clearly; to protect his feet from
    > hot asphalt and real stones.
    >
    > So... you wanna fight about that?
    >
    > I've addressed this post to Paul and DMB, but I'll appreciate
    > thoughtful comment from anyone, as usual.
    >
    >
    > Best to all,
    > Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
    > --
    > InfoPro Consulting - The Professional Information Processors
    > Custom Software Solutions for Windows, PDAs, and the Web Since 1983
    > Web Site: http://www.infoproconsulting.com
    >
    > "The shadows that a swinging lamp will throw,
    > We come from nowhere and to nothing go."
    >
    >
    >
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