Re: MD Is the MoQ still in the Kantosphere?

From: Phaedrus Wolff (PhaedrusWolff@carolina.rr.com)
Date: Sun Jan 02 2005 - 17:13:48 GMT

  • Next message: Ian Glendinning: "Re: MD Is the MoQ still in the Kantosphere?"

    Ian)Could you clarify in two or three sentences each, your precise
    distinction
    between
    Atheist and Anti-Theist ?

    (Your distinction, not dictionary definitions.)

    Chin)Not meaning to but in, but may I please?

    When we view the word 'Atheistic' we view it as a negative.; in our
    dictionary meaning, it means there is no God, or we believe there is no God.

    In the MOQ, when Pirsig says the MOQ is atheistic, it is a denial of the
    dualistic distinction of self and other. The word Quality is not totally
    interchangeable with Nothingness, The One, Creator, Source, Being, or
    Absolute any more than it is totally interchangeable with God or Allah.

    What Quality is is before subject and object. When Nothingness, The One, or
    the Creator is viewed without dualistic distinctions between this self and
    other, or without dusalistic distinction between life and death, or maybe
    even gains and losses, then Quality does not deny these absolutes, but
    encompasses these absolutes. What Quality denies is the 'Other'. When you
    find Quality in the motorcycle, it is not a spiritual or mystic power to
    perceive the motorcycle as having Quality; it is an egoless view of the
    motorcycle. It is an egoless view that the wrench you use, or the bolt you
    tighten, or the motorcycle itself is not separate from you.

    The illusion is what Eintstien called common sense; " . . . a collection of
    prejudices acquired by age eighteen." These prejudices are all layers of
    what we call Self. The concept that God is 'Other' is one of these
    prejudices.

    In Mu, when we strip away these layers of Self, we open ourselves up to
    enlightenment. When we open ourselves up to enlightenment, we become closer
    to perfect; not God, but not apart from God. We become what we are. We lose
    all these labels that the mirrors of society have shown us to be. We are not
    Christian, we are not Hindu, Buddhist, or Muslem. We are free and new. We
    enter our second childhood, as we are free to be creative once again; free
    from the limitations that society has placed on us. We are free to be
    child-like; of boundless love and compassion. We are free to be creative; to
    create that which is around us, and that which we are.

    "'Man is the measure of all things.' Yes, that's what he is saying about
    Quality. Man is not the source of all things, as the subjective idealists
    would say. Nor is he the passive observer of all things, as the objective
    idealists and materialists would say. The Quality which creates the world
    emerges as a relationship between man and his experience. He is a
    participant in the creation of all things" ZMM

    I might add man is not a puppet on a string for a deity to control. From the
    Bible; "On the seventh day God rested." We are in the seventh day.

    We are not atheists; atheist is just another layer of prejudice we build
    this Self from; a dualistic reasoning between believer and non-believer.

    Who is right? -- who is wrong? -- does it matter?

    Chin

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Ian Glendinning" <ian@psybertron.org>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 8:49 AM
    Subject: Re: MD Is the MoQ still in the Kantosphere?

    > Ham, before I agree with Marsha,
    >
    > Could you clarify in two or three sentences each, your precise distinction
    > between
    > Atheist and Anti-Theist ?
    >
    > (Your distinction, not dictionary definitions.)
    >
    > Ian
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "MarshaV" <marshalz@i-2000.com>
    > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    > Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 11:49 AM
    > Subject: Re: MD Is the MoQ still in the Kantosphere?
    >
    >
    > > At 11:57 AM 1/1/2005 -0500, you wrote:
    > > >Ham)I am aware that Mr. Pirsig has avoided taking a theistic position
    and
    > > >that one or two of the posters call themselves atheists but, frankly,
    I'm
    > > >surprised that the MOQ is considered "atheistic". Anti-theist, yes, but
    > has
    > > >Pirsig or anyone else in this group actually claimed MOQ to be
    atheistic?
    > >
    > > Yes Ham, I am an atheist.
    > >
    > > Marsha
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    > > Mail Archives:
    > > Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    > > Nov '02 Onward -
    > http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    > > MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
    > >
    > > To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    > > http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    > MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
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    >
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