From: Paul Turner (paul@turnerbc.co.uk)
Date: Wed Jan 05 2005 - 16:31:20 GMT
Hi Platt
Platt said:
You seem to suggest that the mystic experience is something special, but
according to Ken Wilber who has made a thorough study what mystics say
about the mystic "experience," it is nothing more than your "everyday,
ordinary consciousness." (From "The Spectrum of Consciousness," p.298).
I
assume you disagree.
Paul:
I haven't read the book or the passage you have taken this from so I
don't know whether I agree or disagree without knowing the context in
which he made the statement. 'Ordinary mind' reminds me of Shunryu
Suzuki. It is used in the sense of not consciously and actively striving
for this or that understanding, not trying to 'grasp' something complex,
not getting excited about or carried away by insights or breakthroughs,
not taking sides, just sitting, that kind of thing.
Platt said:
My painting doesn't [feed the baby] because of my lack of ability. But I
know painters who
make a nice living at it, meaning their babies never go hungry. I
suspect
you do, too.
Paul:
I can only think that you have you deliberately missed the point of my
statement. I was trying to demonstrate that some things are done for the
pure quality of them, that we are attracted to some experiences and
behaviours which have nothing to do with the "necessities of survival."
Platt said:
How can I not understand mysticism if it's my ordinary, everyday
consciousness? Isn't mysticism simply what I know before I know anything
else? If not, perhaps you can explain how I can go about "understanding
mysticism." According to Pirsig, I experience it everyday when I decide
"this is better than that."
Paul:
The pure value which produces the "this is better than that" judgment is
there to be experienced every day but this cutting edge of experience is
usually not perceived because existing static intellectual patterns
block it. The effort to perceive and understand it creates more
patterns.
Platt said:
I look forward to be pointed in the direction of "enlightenment."
Paul:
Your sarcasm makes it difficult for me to respond in the right spirit.
Anyway, Pirsig recently had this to say on enlightenment:
"In Zen training, meditation is used to dissipate static intellectual
blockage. Complete removal of all static blockage constitutes
enlightenment." [Pirsig, Sept 16th 2004]
Regards
Paul
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