From: Phaedrus Wolff (PhaedrusWolff@carolina.rr.com)
Date: Thu Jan 06 2005 - 01:14:40 GMT
Paul:
Your sarcasm makes it difficult for me to respond in the right spirit.
Anyway, Pirsig recently had this to say on enlightenment:
"In Zen training, meditation is used to dissipate static intellectual
blockage. Complete removal of all static blockage constitutes
enlightenment." [Pirsig, Sept 16th 2004]
Hi Paul,
May I ask how this was used in context of what Pirsig was saying?
"Complete removal of all static blockage constitutes
enlightenment."
Would mean that only after stripping away all layers of ego would
enlightenment come, and is reached only after a life of guidance from the
master, of which you would then become a master(?)
Chin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Turner" <paul@turnerbc.co.uk>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 11:31 AM
Subject: RE: MD The MOQ and Mysticism 101
> Hi Platt
>
> Platt said:
> You seem to suggest that the mystic experience is something special, but
>
> according to Ken Wilber who has made a thorough study what mystics say
> about the mystic "experience," it is nothing more than your "everyday,
> ordinary consciousness." (From "The Spectrum of Consciousness," p.298).
> I
> assume you disagree.
>
> Paul:
> I haven't read the book or the passage you have taken this from so I
> don't know whether I agree or disagree without knowing the context in
> which he made the statement. 'Ordinary mind' reminds me of Shunryu
> Suzuki. It is used in the sense of not consciously and actively striving
> for this or that understanding, not trying to 'grasp' something complex,
> not getting excited about or carried away by insights or breakthroughs,
> not taking sides, just sitting, that kind of thing.
>
> Platt said:
> My painting doesn't [feed the baby] because of my lack of ability. But I
> know painters who
> make a nice living at it, meaning their babies never go hungry. I
> suspect
> you do, too.
>
> Paul:
> I can only think that you have you deliberately missed the point of my
> statement. I was trying to demonstrate that some things are done for the
> pure quality of them, that we are attracted to some experiences and
> behaviours which have nothing to do with the "necessities of survival."
>
> Platt said:
> How can I not understand mysticism if it's my ordinary, everyday
> consciousness? Isn't mysticism simply what I know before I know anything
>
> else? If not, perhaps you can explain how I can go about "understanding
> mysticism." According to Pirsig, I experience it everyday when I decide
> "this is better than that."
>
> Paul:
> The pure value which produces the "this is better than that" judgment is
> there to be experienced every day but this cutting edge of experience is
> usually not perceived because existing static intellectual patterns
> block it. The effort to perceive and understand it creates more
> patterns.
>
> Platt said:
> I look forward to be pointed in the direction of "enlightenment."
>
> Paul:
> Your sarcasm makes it difficult for me to respond in the right spirit.
> Anyway, Pirsig recently had this to say on enlightenment:
> "In Zen training, meditation is used to dissipate static intellectual
> blockage. Complete removal of all static blockage constitutes
> enlightenment." [Pirsig, Sept 16th 2004]
>
> Regards
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
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