From: Chuck Roghair (ctr@pacificpartssales.com)
Date: Thu Jan 13 2005 - 20:59:00 GMT
Hello Platt, Chin, All Interested Persons:
Platt, you magnificent bastard! "Secular Fundamentalist?" That is so
oxymoronic and such brilliant verbiage. A tip of the hat, you never
disappoint, sir.
Chin, I can tell you that upon my arrival here I was rather upset to find
God or "Cosmic Intelligence" being pushed. Reason being, I knew Pirsigian
philosophy to be non-theistic from personal study. I had a lot of anger and
resentment toward institutionalized religion generally, and specifically
Christianity from personal experience. Also, I thought in the MoQ I'd found
like minded folk from whom I might gain insight without having to fear
evangelical muggings. Imagine my disappointment.
On a societal scale, it's at least a little disconcerting for some to think
that the world's only superpower, in an obviously cranky, imperialistic mood
of late, is driven by policy influenced mainly by a God & dogma for which a
rational argument cannot be made and for which there is no empirical
evidence.
These things in addition to many others would bother me a lot. As a result,
I would vent frustration here. Then Sam put forth the proposition that
maybe I was "karma dumping" and suggested some reading which I accepted and
pursued. I decided Sam was right (thank you, Sam, by the way) and gave the
whole of it some further thought. Then something changed.
It wasn't my belief or non-belief that changed. I did; I shifted a bit. I
realized, in the grand scheme of everything, it's all moot. Or mu,
possibly. Can't decide which--maybe both.
Eventually, Zoroastrianism, Jews for Jesus, The Mormon Church, Intelligent
Design, Gnostic Biker Talmud Puritans, Zwingliism, Christianity and other
such silliness will go the way of Zeus & Co.
Personally, I think functioning in society is challenging enough without all
the cognitive dissonance and suspension of reason necessary to
intellectually dedicate oneself to institutionalized monotheism, but
whatever blows your hair up, ya know?
Anyway, I think of the MoQ now as containing "God" as a human construct
(I'll use "God" as a catch-phrase for "cosmic intelligence," "intelligent
designer," "voice from on high," "that voice I hear when I get high," etc.)
straddling the line between the societal and intellectual level. God was
born on Main street in "Any town," Societal Level, don't get me wrong,
probably in a log cabin between a glowing Christmas Tree and warm hearth w/
Bing Crosby crooning in the background, Yule log, the whole nine yards--all
very Norman Rockwell. He still spends the majority of his time there,
surrounded by fans and well-wishers.
In the MoQ though, he's being dragged up to the intellectual level,
reluctantly, I think.
To answer your question more directly, I think what sets off the "Secular
Fundamentalists" (ha!) so much is the perception of holy rolling opportunism
by the evangelical antagonists who have chosen this forum as a stage
suitable for flexing their false premise muscle in support of what amounts
to little more than a collection fairy tales.
Or maybe not. What do I know anyway?
I'm off now to have "Secular Fundamentalist" printed on my business cards!
Best regards,
Chuck- Secular Fundamentalist, Radical Atheist
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk [mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk]
On Behalf Of Platt Holden
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 5:47 AM
To: moq_discuss@moq.org; owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
Subject: Re: MD The MOQ and Mysticism 101
Hi Chin,
> I know people get upset here when you speak of "Cosmic Intelligence," or
> the brain and mind separately, or the idea of a master mind at the center
> of the universe is going to upset them even more.
>
> I have to ask - What is this show of emotion all about? I've seen bikers
> who hated other gangs less than Christians are hated here. To me,
> Judeo-Christian, Islam, or Deity Zen is just as likely to hold the key as
> science or astrology, or Humanity Zen, Nature Zen, or Nature spirituality
-
> or mathematics. It seems the question of mathematics being the immortal
> principle has not been settled.
Any mention of the supernatural drives secular fundamentalists crazy for
the simple reason that they must sever the people's relationship with God
in order to gain full control over them. So long as free people believe
that their basic moral rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of
happiness come from God and not from other men, attempts to remove those
rights by political means (coercion) will be resisted. Thus, socialist
planners must take every opportunity to disabuse people of their religious
beliefs. Fortunately, in the U.S. their efforts have hardly made a
dent.
Although Pirsig is an atheist, his "naturalistic" moral structure holds
freedom to be the highest value, thus supporting and protecting the ideals
of individual life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness from those who
would alter them for the sake of some social level scheme promoted in the
name of "the public good."
Platt
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Thu Jan 13 2005 - 21:01:58 GMT