From: Ian Glendinning (ian@psybertron.org)
Date: Fri Jan 14 2005 - 18:07:04 GMT
Thanks Matt, sorry my question wasn't near as serious as your original piece
warranted.
"How do we know" is about what I said / intended - so far so good.
Problem as you say, and something I keep banging about ad-nauseam (or
ad-hominem Platt's would say) is ...
Depending on your *motive" in asking How ?
you can always repeat the question Yes, but Why ? or How ? again,
then Yes, but How ? (or Why ?) again,
etc..
You have to believe to see, not the other way round.
ie A skeptic armed with only logical syllogisms / dialectic can win any
argument by a war of attrition *if* that is their *motive*.
Catch 22 - Careful with that reductionist razor Occam.
The test of truth IMHO is consistency and fit, with other patterns of what
you believe to be true and what you believe to be true depends on your
motivation.
Reason (truth, quality, etc.) is about dynamic processes not dead logic.
When I read the WSJ, as well as the words, I need to read into it - Did this
person publish this information so that I could benefit from it financially,
or so that they could ? Now, let me guess.
When I read the Sun, as well as the words, I need to read into it - Am I
reading this for fun to pass a whole 2 minutes of my life, or did they
publish it for some Machiavellian motive I need to work out, or any number
of other possible motives. If my answer is because I am looking for facts
(on anything other than their motives) please cart me off to the asylum.
No facts in words.
Ian
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matt Kundert" <pirsigaffliction@hotmail.com>
> To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 2:52 AM
> Subject: MD Reply to Ian
>
>
> > Hey Ian,
> >
> > Usually if you take a Phil 101 class they'll define the two traditional,
> > major branches of philosophy as "Metaphysics: What is reality?" and
> > "Epistemology: What is knowledge? or How do we know?" Epistemology, in
> the
> > limited sense I am using it, simply demands an answer to the skeptic.
So,
> > when you answer the metaphysical question with, say, "Quality," the
> question
> > that seems to be begging to be asked is "How do you know?" Answer the
> > question "What is reality?" with _any_ answer, and you will have to
answer
> > the skeptical follow-up.
> >
> > So, when you say, "I do believe that there is something like 'pure'
> > unmediated experience
> > available to us," the question you have to answer is, "How do you know
> when
> > you are having a pure, unmediated experience?" And probably for
whatever
> > answer you give to that question, you will again have to give an answer
> to,
> > "How do you know?" And probably again after that.
> >
> > Not to tip my hand, but you'll probably have to answer that question ad
> > infinitum. Which is why people like Sam and I suggest that there is
> > probably something wrong with the original question.
> >
> > Matt
> >
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