From: Mark Steven Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Tue Jan 25 2005 - 06:27:24 GMT
Hi gav, adam, nick, platt, and all,
Gav, great post and followup. Thanks.
As one who is guilty of keeping the political pot boiling here, I
should answer your question about why I spend so much time stirring
and stirring. I certainly do not do it in hopes of changing
already calcified minds. I stir to test my own understanding of my
own ideas. The other reason for stirring is that of Whitman's
noiseless, patient spider, who keeps launching forth his filament,
expecting it to catch, somewhere. The words I write are my filament;
if they catch someone and cause a quality latch-up, then the spinning
can begin, and there's a chance that things might become better.
Quality is served.
I agree with both you and Adam that the political game behind the
ideology of "Democracy" is a con game, a shake-down, a farce. But
this isn't some law of nature; this sham is the result of real
policies instituted by real people for their own real benefit. As
such, the sham can be exposed and even eliminated, and government may
indeed become more truly representative of the majority of the
people. Our discussion and actions may prove futile, but the choice
is really this: Do something, and maybe things will get better; do
nothing, and things will certainly get worse.
Some brief comments interspersed below.
On 25 Jan 2005 at 13:59, gav wrote:
i think i need to reply to adam and nick's very
reasonable points.
firstly nick: i wasn't just talking about 'democracy'. i am actually
an ardent fan of direct democracy: in the family,
school, workplace, community, but the concept of
democracy that we are actually talking of here is
really 'representative oligarchy', the modern western
mode of government, which is i believe a con, first
and foremost cos it ain't democratic (ie the people do
not rule themsleves).
msh says:
Yep.
gav:
you may think that i am splitting hairs but i think reclaiming the
actual meaning of the word is necessary if we are to use it at all,
otherwise we are just dealing in propaganda. so i don't think
democracy is a con; i think representative oligarchies are a con
(regardless of the ideologies involved).
msh says:
Yes, and we'll never be able to reclaim the word "democracy" if we
don't reveal it in its fraudulent forms. This is why it is important
to keep the discussion going wherever and whenever possible, even if
it means we don't get invited to parties. :-)
gav:
i had the pleasure recently of living in an autonomous
community in southern spain for a month. this village
of mostly british expats was more or less independent
of the state apparatus, like the anarchist spanish had
been 70 years earlier in the same region. for two
years or so, in the 30s, whole tracts of spain were
autonomous and truly democratic. no
gods/kings/politicians lorded over them. unfortunately
(due to the curious cooperation of supposedly
oppositional ideologues from germany and russia) it
didn't last and over the next four decades most of the
radicals were rooted out and executed. strange now
that their spirit lives on in these ex-pat brits,
escapees themselves from the banal tyranny in their
own homeland.
msh says:
Yes. I mentioned this in a post to Sam. Anyone interested in the
anarchists of the Spanish Revolution might well enjoy and learn from
Orwell's "Homage To Catalonia."
gav:
the point: we have *never* needed politicians, kings
or popes. to be ruled is to be a slave. slavery is
slavery no matter how you dress it up. worst of all
perhaps is the willing slave. doesn't the english
anthem make you sick? 'long to reign over us...'
msh says:
Yep.
gav:
now the really impressive bit is the masterful
trickery necessary to convince 99.99% of humanity, for
thousands of years, that you *do* need masters.
how has it been pulled off? here we get to adam:
there is only one way to pull such an amazing feat:
you have to control reality. you have to have a
monopoly on reality and pump that sole reality into
the 'cattle' consistently,
msh says:
Yep. Start with Chomsky-Herman's "Manufacturing Consent", and read
all documentation backward to the start of the 20th century.
Everything you'll learn applies forward to now.
gav continues:
lest they start to wake up and construct their own. of course cracks
always appear in this monoreality and lately these cracks
have widened, due to the internet for one.
msh says:
Yes. But even the internet is under attack. Also, we should
remember that the strength of the internet is also its weakness,
which is that anyone can publish anything there, at least for now.
gav goes on:
controlling reality is a big task and requires a
shitload of coordination. this is where the secret
societies like the masons come in...it is quite
simple: if you have a hierarchical (pyramidal) power
structure (and we always have) then you need only
control the very top people in diverse areas to
control reality. eg nearly all US presidents, from
washington onwards, have been masons.
msh says:
Well, my own feeling is that focusing on the Masons, or the Skull and
Bones, or any other "secret" society sort of feeds into the somewhat
childish interest in a scary bedtime story. It's entertaining, but
it is also distracting us from real problem analysis. Forget the
Masons, the Skulls, the Oswalds... There are plenty of very real
villains around, and they are as tangible as the CEOs, Directors, and
major stockholders of the Fortune 100. Let's not invent goblins;
let's get after the ones that are real.
Best to all, and keep the pot boiling,
Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
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