From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Sun Jan 30 2005 - 16:12:30 GMT
Hi Ron, All:
Two breakthrough thoughts in your brilliant post:
" There is nothing to be experienced except for experience itself."
and
"DQ does not exist after the fact; after it is experienced."
For those who missed it, here's Ron's complete commentary:
Platt
> The reason I feel it leaves too much unsettled is that before Quantum
> Physics, Western Philosophy would not consider anything that was not object
> related. There is a separation of mind and matter, and mind can only
> experience matter; anything that is not matter was unreal.
>
> What was once scientific certainty is now uncertain. Once we split the
> atom, and started trying to defince the objects within the atom, we
> realized it is not all object at all. Our best 'guess'-timation of what we
> view is only that; a guess. We view what is an object, but doesn't remain
> an object. Particles and waves do a dance that is unpredictable, and the
> particles and waves do not even remain particles and waves; particles
> become waves, and waves, particles.
>
> Both the subject and object are creations of the mind, and the mind is not
> separate from matter, so there is nothing to be experienced except for
> experience itself. There is no object that we focus on, and there is not
> subject prior to experience. As opposed to mind and/or matter, Quality
> (Value) is is the fundamental element of reality. The mind is no more than
> an evolutionary advancement, and intellect is part of this evolutionary
> advancement. We do not create our world by thinking about it, our world
> creates our thinking. When I say world, I do not mean earth and rivers, but
> grains of sand to stars, or particles to the black hole, or waves that
> extend to the furthest reaches of the universe.
>
> This is where nothingness comes in. When you strip away the ego and the
> cultural beliefs, there is nothing left. This is when we experience; pure
> (raw) experience. This is our mysticism; it is our letting go of the tired
> old beliefs that leave us wanting, and needing to justify our thoughts to
> that of others who have gone before us. Our beliefs are what keeps us
> needy, but we search for reality by asking those who made us needy to begin
> with. Pure experience does not come from an effort to understand, but from
> reality itself. We just have to open up to it.
>
> DQ and SQ are not separate in an S/O world, as there would be no DQ. Once
> DQ is experienced, it is then SQ; the very moment you experience it. To try
> to put it into Kantian terms, SQ is S/O; DQ does not exist after the fact;
> after it is experienced. S/O just points to the experience DQ provided,
> which now is real in our thinking, but was never unreal; just our thinking
> was unreal.
>
> Anyone interested, let me know how bad I screwed this up.
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