Re: MD Pure experience and the Kantian problematic

From: Ron Winchester (phaedruswolff@hotmail.com)
Date: Sun Jan 30 2005 - 19:03:45 GMT

  • Next message: David Buchanan: "RE: MD Pure experience and the Kantian problematic"

    Hi Platt,

    Thanks for the Atta-boy, but I have to give credit for any of my thoughts to
    Anthony McWatt now. As I offered to him in a private email, after reading
    through much of his thesis, it leaves me wondering if the words I offer are
    now my own, or his. Much of what he has written has confirmed statements I
    made prior to the reading, but I am sure much of it has opened up a new way
    of viewing my previous thoughts.

    It is quite good, and I would think it would quiet some of the confusion
    over Pirsig's philosophy that has been being offered here.

    Thanks again,

    Ron

    >From: "Platt Holden" <pholden@sc.rr.com>
    >Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
    >To: moq_discuss@moq.org, owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
    >Subject: Re: MD Pure experience and the Kantian problematic
    >Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:12:30 -0500
    >
    >Hi Ron, All:
    >
    >Two breakthrough thoughts in your brilliant post:
    >
    >" There is nothing to be experienced except for experience itself."
    >
    >and
    >
    > "DQ does not exist after the fact; after it is experienced."
    >
    >For those who missed it, here's Ron's complete commentary:
    >
    >Platt
    >
    >
    > > The reason I feel it leaves too much unsettled is that before Quantum
    > > Physics, Western Philosophy would not consider anything that was not
    >object
    > > related. There is a separation of mind and matter, and mind can only
    > > experience matter; anything that is not matter was unreal.
    > >
    > > What was once scientific certainty is now uncertain. Once we split the
    > > atom, and started trying to defince the objects within the atom, we
    > > realized it is not all object at all. Our best 'guess'-timation of what
    >we
    > > view is only that; a guess. We view what is an object, but doesn't
    >remain
    > > an object. Particles and waves do a dance that is unpredictable, and the
    > > particles and waves do not even remain particles and waves; particles
    > > become waves, and waves, particles.
    > >
    > > Both the subject and object are creations of the mind, and the mind is
    >not
    > > separate from matter, so there is nothing to be experienced except for
    > > experience itself. There is no object that we focus on, and there is not
    > > subject prior to experience. As opposed to mind and/or matter, Quality
    > > (Value) is is the fundamental element of reality. The mind is no more
    >than
    > > an evolutionary advancement, and intellect is part of this evolutionary
    > > advancement. We do not create our world by thinking about it, our world
    > > creates our thinking. When I say world, I do not mean earth and rivers,
    >but
    > > grains of sand to stars, or particles to the black hole, or waves that
    > > extend to the furthest reaches of the universe.
    > >
    > > This is where nothingness comes in. When you strip away the ego and the
    > > cultural beliefs, there is nothing left. This is when we experience;
    >pure
    > > (raw) experience. This is our mysticism; it is our letting go of the
    >tired
    > > old beliefs that leave us wanting, and needing to justify our thoughts
    >to
    > > that of others who have gone before us. Our beliefs are what keeps us
    > > needy, but we search for reality by asking those who made us needy to
    >begin
    > > with. Pure experience does not come from an effort to understand, but
    >from
    > > reality itself. We just have to open up to it.
    > >
    > > DQ and SQ are not separate in an S/O world, as there would be no DQ.
    >Once
    > > DQ is experienced, it is then SQ; the very moment you experience it. To
    >try
    > > to put it into Kantian terms, SQ is S/O; DQ does not exist after the
    >fact;
    > > after it is experienced. S/O just points to the experience DQ provided,
    > > which now is real in our thinking, but was never unreal; just our
    >thinking
    > > was unreal.
    > >
    > > Anyone interested, let me know how bad I screwed this up.
    >
    >
    >
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