From: Ron Winchester (phaedruswolff@hotmail.com)
Date: Mon Jan 31 2005 - 04:02:10 GMT
dmb says:
At bottom it is about materialism. Science within SOM handles art, morality
and mysticism so badly because these have been relegated to mere
subjectivity, mere opinion, and are assumed to have no bearing on the truth
of anything. This won't do for the simple reason that we all know from our
own experience that the most intimate and important experiences in life are
wierdly left out of the picture.
Hi dmb,
I didn't want to reply with off-beat comments on the thread you were
replying to, so I changed the title.
This materialism you are pointing at here has me somewhat concerned. The
Capitalism thread that was started sometime earlier went in a direction I
was not really interested in, but your mentnion here of materialism, and
earlier comments about the Noble savage have me going into a direction
toward the new religion of Capitalism in America.
As I live in NC, I have witnessed our jobs going overseas due to NAFTA,
which in itself does not bother me because it is part of a new Global
Economy that I support even with the hardships my friends face.
What concerns me is the move toward Capitalism that is leaving the workers
disconnected from the company they work for. The advancement of technology
is a bit more serious than it was pictured in ZMM. The use of computers for
dealing with the employees as far as benefits and human relations and saftey
training, etc., leave me with a feeling that the employee/employer relations
are going in a direction away from Quality.
More than just with the employees and the customers who must deal with
computers to handle customer relations as well, and lacking in the customer
service area, I also see a trend toward another area lacking communication,
and this with animals, and society in general.
Here in NC, I also see mass warehousing of hogs, cows, and chickens in a
manner in which is not only cruel to the animals, but harmful to the
environment, and to the eco-system.
The reason I threw Noble savage in there is that we learned something from
the Native Americans about communicating with the animals. Farmers develop
relationships with their animals even if the animals are only being sent to
slauter, in that the chores of feeding and caring for the animals can be
seen as interaction with the animals. With Corporate America automatic
feeders and antibiotics are taking the place of human care. The massive
warehousing of the animals is creating environmental hazards from waste
through loopholes in the laws that were written for the small farmer that
are making the streams and rivers uninhabiatable, and the mass warhouses for
the animals are being set up in small towns who depend on these rivers for
water, incapable of handling such huge waste and water demands. On top of
this, it is putting the small farmers who live off the land out of business;
out of homes.
The small farmers also took care of the environment by rotating pasture
areas and crop areas to manage the waste as natural fertilizer. The small
'One Light' towns are becoming Ghost Towns, and the farms waste land.
With 1% of the population holding 99% of the wealth, and no concern for the
rest of the population, I'm wondering how bad it might be to live on a
reservation ;o)
I fear the technological advances that are based on bottom-line Capitalism
is causing a loneliness throughout America. Corporate America is distancing
itself from the little guy; the dispensible entity the machine uses up and
tosses out. The little guy may be carrying the lonliness with him into after
work activities of family and friends (or friendless society).
I might even mention AIDS and the makers of the Little Blue Pill, but that
might better be left for another thread.
I'm beggining to think my knowledge of motorcycle mechanics isn't going to
help much in the technological world we have built.
Science and philosophy might not be the only fields that can stand a
direction away from materialism.
End Rant
Ron
>From: David Buchanan <DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org>
>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>To: "'moq_discuss@moq.org'" <moq_discuss@moq.org>
>Subject: RE: MD Pure experience and the Kantian problematic
>Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 17:59:47 -0700
>
>Ron said to Matt and all:
>James Pragmatism and Radical Empiricism (what works) based on S/O lack the
>moral framework of the MOQ as S/O goes from inorganic to intellectual, and
>bypasses biological and social.
>
>dmb pipes in:
>Or, as I prefer to think of it, SOM reduced all four levels to one or the
>other.
>
>Ron continued:
>By splitting SOM into the inorganic/chaotic, biological/inorganic,
>social/biological and intellectual/social, you have a framework for morals
>that does not give way to 'What works' as James pragmatism and radical
>empiricism did. The Nazis couldn't say "This was the highest intellectual
>Quality decision to advance society," but in an SOM pragmatism and
>empiricism, it is 'What works' for them.
>
>dmb adds:
>The hierarchy not only sorts out moral issues, they also serve as a basis
>for epistemologyical pluralism. This is not as fancy as it sounds. It only
>means that we investigate society differently than we investigate biology
>or
>rocks. Each level of being requires a different set of criteria. You'll
>never see morals through a microscope and all that.
>
>Ron concluded:
>It is the subject and object scientific empiricism that "SOM uses to
>exclude
>
>art, morality, and mysticism."
>
>dmb says:
>At bottom it is about materialism. Science within SOM handles art, morality
>and mysticism so badly because these have been relegated to mere
>subjectivity, mere opinion, and are assumed to have no bearing on the truth
>of anything. This won't do for the simple reason that we all know from our
>own experience that the most intimate and important experiences in life are
>wierdly left out of the picture.
>
>The MOQ isn't really a new solution to this SOM ugliness so much as a
>return
>to the ancient wisdom and the Eastern wisdom. The philosphical mysticism,
>or
>the perennial philosophy, is the revival of a view that preceeded SOM. He
>tries to strip DQ of the clap trap too and take us back to a place before
>all that noise was added.
>
>Thanks,
>dmb
>
>
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