Re: MD Contradictions

From: Scott Roberts (jse885@localnet.com)
Date: Fri Mar 04 2005 - 18:04:41 GMT

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    Max,

    Max said:
    Would it be correct to state that cold is static and hot is its negation or
    flux?

    Scott:
    Why on earth would you try to put hot and cold into a framework of static
    and flux? I only mentioned the opposites "hot and cold" in my post to Platt
    as an example of opposites that do NOT cause any sort of logical problem.
    They are areas in the temperature spectrum that a person will judge as such.
    The logical problems come up when one is in a situation of saying "because
    it is X, it is not-X", and "hot and cold" or colors do not fit this schema.
    Where I see contradictory identity arising is when one speaks of *awareness*
    of stasis or of flux. Stasis and flux in themselves are just another pair of
    opposite properties: is the train at rest or is it moving? No problem
    answering one way or another. There is a problem when one asks if awareness
    is static or in motion when it observes motion.

    Max said:
    Part of my problem with your definition of flux is that I understand flux as
    a term that is in movement (dynamic) negotiating between opposites (both
    static). But that is my understanding of flux. However, I would then assert
    that because cold is static, than its negation is static as well and that
    flux, as movement, couldn't be considered static.

    This is why I believe that stasis is negated my ultimate movement and that
    flux exists on territory between.

    Scott:
    So are you hypothesing that there is a real world of static entities? And
    then flux comes along to negotiate between them? Apparently not, since below
    you talk of static entities being a product of theory. See below

    Scott said:
     "Are you saying that thing-ness is an illusion? Then you haven't
    synthesized, but have chosen one horn of the dilemma, which leaves it open
    to my objection: what stays constant so that awareness of flux is possible?
    What makes the illusion happen?"

    Max said:
    In this I would first say that I am terribly uncertain of myself here. With
    that in mind I will risk an answer anyway. In the context of the model I am
    presenting, I would say that any true constant is theoretical, perhaps an
    illusion. For example, cold is only truly cold in form because in reality
    cold can never be so cold that it cannot get colder; same being true for
    hot, black, and white. They can never be a true constant except
    theoretically. In addition, I might reply that we are only aware of flux
    because true constants exist only in form. In my model above I believe that
    I have presented an argument for synthesis, thus, 'becoming' would be a
    synthesis of 'Is' and 'isn't. Would it be plausible to say that constants
    are static while flux is dynamic?

    Scott:
    I would say it is tautological. You are only renaming. What I am objecting
    to (in general in this forum) is statements like " any true constant is
    theoretical, perhaps an illusion". This presupposes some non-theoretical
    purely dynamic world in which theory comes along and makes static things out
    of it. So my question is: how did theory come into being?

    Max said:
    One last thing,
    When you quote the Buddhist tetralemma, I am caused to think about the
    Buddhist notion of the 'middle path'? I would assert that the middle path is
    synthesis, flux and dynamic. But I am only Buddhist some of the time.

    Scott:
    Since you said above that by "flux" you mean the negotiation between static
    entities, I would say that in this you are a victim of the second horn of
    the tetralemma "one cannot say it is flux". A synthesis of flux and stasis
    would be the third horn, which is also to be rejected.

    - Scott

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