Re: MD Static and dynamic aspects of mysticism and religious experience

From: Matt Kundert (pirsigaffliction@hotmail.com)
Date: Sat Mar 05 2005 - 20:08:21 GMT

  • Next message: David Buchanan: "RE: MD Pure experience and the Kantian problematic"

    Hey Sam,

    Sam said:
    The Nicene Creed, accepted by the vast majority of Christians - churches and
    people - explicitly denies this (Jesus is the 'only begotten'). If someone
    wants to call themself 'Christian' on this basis, then fine, but it will
    lead to confusion. Why not just use 'post-Christian' or 'semi-Christian' or
    something like that (or even 'follower of Jesus' etc)?

    In other words, why would someone who denies the central tenets of
    (historical) Christianity want to identify themselves with a group that they
    disagree with, on such a fundamental thing as the nature of Christ? Just
    seems odd to me. I would suspect that such a person is in a state of
    self-denial.

    Matt:
    Don't forget, though, Sam, that a person might identify themselves with a
    tradition, and then behave in strange ways like repudiating certain
    traditional doctrines, in order to _change_ that tradition. They do
    sincerely think of themselves as Christian, and they love that tradition,
    but they think the tradition has fallen from the best road. Their love of
    Christianity causes them to start behaving in strange ways. That's what
    Luther and Calvin were doing, after all: repudiating long standing
    traditional doctrines in order to remake the tradition.

    Which is exactly, for instance, what you are trying to do with the word
    "experience" in certain discourses.

    This is, of course, to say nothing about the topic at hand. You're
    discouragement of such a change is perfectly justified because you _don't_
    think such a change would be good for the tradition. And you may be right.
    But whether the person was revolutionary, or simply in self-denial, is only
    something future historians will be able to decide.

    Matt

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