Re: MD severe tensions

From: Matt Kundert (pirsigaffliction@hotmail.com)
Date: Tue Mar 15 2005 - 19:47:52 GMT

  • Next message: MarshaV: "Re: MD severe tensions"

    Marsha said to Sam:
    I don't think you will ever accept the Metaphysics of Quality, because to do
    so would negate your chosen vocation.

    Matt:
    This is what I mean about the uselessness of certain replies. Because as
    far as I can see, the sword cuts right back the way it came. If we take
    "vocation" in this instance to mean "held beliefs" (given that that's the
    problem apparently with Sam's vocation), Sam can just as easily reply, "I
    don't think you will ever accept post-Wittgensteinian contemporary
    philosophy, because to do so would negate _your_ chosen vocation (i.e., a
    Pirsigian advocate in all of its glory)."

    Now, most people revel in their open hostility to contemporary, professional
    philosophy in all of its forms, so if people like Sam and I reply like this,
    others will take it as a badge of honor that they'll never become, say,
    post-Wittgensteinian. But again, the sword cuts both ways. Sam and I can
    equally revel (though obviously we don't quite revel in our opposition to
    some of Pirsig's tenets the way many here display their antiprofessionalism
    on their sleeve) in the way that we will never become "full-blooded
    Pirsigians" (as defined by the people who oppose us). Because both sides
    think the other side sucks. And who would want to have sucky beliefs?
    Nobody. But you can see how the conversation breaks down at this point.
    Sam and I have been in the process of trying to show others why we think
    some of Pirsig's language and terminology leads to these so-called "sucky
    beliefs." But much of the time we are met with blank-faced hostility, which
    leads to the conversation immediately breaking down.

    This isn't a fan site. At least, it hasn't been a fan site for a long time.
      People come here to join in conversation with others about their beliefs
    (most of which revolving around Pirsig) in the hope of being illuminated
    somehow. Some people don't find others illuminating. That happens. It
    happens everywhere--all the time. It doesn't mean there's a "cultural
    blindspot." That's the type of full scale paranoia that leads people to
    think that the Jews are running the world, and other nonsense like that.
    _Anybody_ who was impressed by Pirsig enough to show up here is already in
    the process of revising their beliefs and ready to revise the language they
    were handed by their culture. The ability to parse the bad stuff, the
    "blindspots," from the good stuff, regular ole' "common sense," is a large
    undertaking that takes no small amount of inquiring conversation. It takes
    a lot of space and a lot of energy to convince reasonable people, even
    like-minded people, of these things. Look at Pirsig: he took a lot of time,
    energy, and space to write the things he did. And that's the way it should
    be, because if we weren't exercising our critical thinking, any ole'
    demogogue could come along and convince us all to be Scientologists.

    But when the conversation breaks down, what are we to do? When hostility
    ensues, and the conversation breaks down, both sides look to the other like
    they've been won over by a demogogue.

    This is why I think the antiprofessionalism is out of place and, in the end,
    extremely detrimental. To people here _and_ to the profession. I mean,
    isn't the origin of the antiprofessionalism in the fact that everybody's
    pissed off that Pirsig isn't being read in Phil 101 classes, or rather
    (since he is being read in Phil 101 classes), isn't being taught to grad
    students in seminars? And you're pissed because Pirsig has a lot to _say_
    to the profession? That he should be _included_ in the conversation? But
    do you really think he's being excluded because of some cultural conspiracy
    against him? Or is it because he simply isn't in the conversation yet, so
    nobody knows to look to him?

    Well, how do you get him in the conversation if you're busy bad-mouthing the
    profession? And if you took antiprofessionalism to its end-point, the
    profession was destroyed? Then there's no conversation. Now what do you
    do?

    Wouldn't it be more prudent if you thought Pirsig had something to add to
    contemporary philosophy to try and get a conversation going with the
    professionals? And to try and keep that conversation going?

    Isn't that what Sam and I and others who are trying to bring in other
    philosophers and sit them side by side with Pirsig trying to do--enter him
    into conversation with contemporary philosophy (of various forms and
    stripes)?

    So why is this bad? You may not like our philosophy, but the hostility
    shuts the conversation down. And then you're still on the other side.
    Actually, much like Pirsig, who wanted to get thrown out the front door of
    the University of Chicago so he could brush himself off and say, "Well, I
    tried," and leave with a clear conscience. And not only that, be able to
    say, "They must not be ready for me. Must be a cultural blindspot in
    place."

    Nobody wins like this. Least of all Dynamic Quality.

    Matt

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