Re: MD Nihilism (Punk)

From: max demian (oikoumenist@hotmail.com)
Date: Thu Mar 31 2005 - 20:57:07 BST

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    Howdy,
    I wanted to interject my point of view about Freud, psychology, psychiatry,
    chemical imbalance and ‘shock’ therapy:

    I think that it is over simplistic to put psychology and psychiatry in bed
    together. I for one am a great fan of psychiatry while hating the psychology
    apparatus. It is evident to me that psychiatry is much more of a hard
    science. Its conclusions are based on quasi-objective processes. While it is
    true that many of its mechanisms are yet to be understood entirely, its
    evidence points to possible chemical therapies. The same is true for ECTs.
    For some reason, when the patient has a seizure it helps bring emotional
    stability. No one knows why it works, but the evidence is pretty
    overwhelmingly in favor of ECT as a possible therapy.

    On the other hand, psychology can be equated to a confessional. Gilles
    Deleuze makes the point that as christianity began to dissolve at the turn
    of the century, psychology found its birth. Freud was quite brilliant though
    more than a little disturbed. He created an entire language system to
    surround his idea of psychoanalysis. This language system has become an
    apparatus that continues to oppress the people it tries to help and it tries
    to help everyone. How many times do we categorize someone as psychotic or
    neurotic? For Deleuze, this language system and its power is very similar to
    the language and power of religious dogma. The mechanism that these actions
    use is guilt. Guilt is used to force people away from freedom. When we feel
    guilt, valid or no, we seek absolution, we put our ‘faith’ in an institution
    that promises a way out of our guilt. We give personal power to someone
    else. We become like cows eating in a trough.

    Thanks for the pulpit,
    Max

    P.s. Pirsig’s description of ‘shock-therapy’ is very much in synch with my
    own

    >From: "Platt Holden" <pholden@sc.rr.com>
    >Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
    >To: moq_discuss@moq.org, owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
    >Subject: Re: MD Nihilism (Punk)
    >Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 08:01:02 -0500
    >
    >
    >Erin writes:
    > > I think your reducing their problems to chemical imbalances is
    > > oversimplistic and SOM. I disagree. Actually I think that kind of
    > > thinking is what got Pirsig the repulsive" treatment" he got like
    > > involuntary shock treatments.
    >
    >Shock treatments can be beneficial as Pirsig points out in Chap. 30 of
    >Lila. Not only does he state that shock treatments "work," but that "...
    >the senseless unpatterned state (caused by shock therapy) is a valuable
    >state of existence." (Note that Pirsig implicitly correlates conscious
    >states and existence.)
    >
    > > I don't agree with modern psychology's take
    > > on many things but I don't agree with Freud's theory either but that is
    > > irrelevent to my point. I'm not opposed to looking at Victorian
    > > goals/accomplishments....but I don't want to return to the Victorian era
    >or
    > > ignore it's problems.
    >
    >I'm sure Pirsig would agree that one can look at Victorian accomplishments
    >without yearning to return to that era.
    >
    > > pg. 296 "how can you tell the two directions apart. Both oppose the
    > > status quo. Radical idealists and degenerate hooligans sometimes
    >strongly
    > > resemble each other"
    >
    >Pirsig suggests we can use his moral hierarchy as a guide in making
    >judgments about the value of "radicals" or any other moral question. Of
    >course, he is the first to admit that it's not foolproof.
    >
    >Platt
    >
    >
    >
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