From: ian glendinning (psybertron@gmail.com)
Date: Fri Apr 01 2005 - 04:52:44 BST
Platt, Poot,
Look, I'm repeating myself too ...
Musical taste is a matter of taste, but its aesthetic / artistic /
biological qualities can all be anlaysed if we wish ...
We seem to have lost the thread in here concerning the biological /
sexual "beat" of (some) rock, being the degenerate thing referred to.
That was an aspect I was prepared to analyse and debate. At least it
starts with some grain of truth, unlike the pointless assertion that
rock per se is low quality in some sense.
Yet again however Platt is quoted as saying
"If you think rock is artistically equivalent to the symphonic music
of Bach, Brahms and Beethoven, the chances of your agreeing with
Pirsig's idea of a declining society is slim indeed."
I say - Platt you are a master rhetorician, but you do talk twaddle in
your naughty non-sequitors. Yes I can see artistic equivalence in all
genres of musical art - classical symphonic as well as "post-modern"
rock - some is higher quality than others. But - that has no bearing
whatesoever on the fact that I do indeed disagree with Pirsig's
apparent assertion that our morality (in general) is going to the
dogs. He was making an observation about the excesses of hippiedom at
the time, and the same could be true about the excesses of any
lifestyle movement, the excesses of logical positivism or scientific
fundamentalism, the excesses of anything in fact. (Cue another debate
on Nietzsche, again - no gain without pain etc, no omelettes without
breaking eggs, etc Creative destruction, etc.)
Open your eyes, look up to the skies, and see ...
I see a little silhouette of a man ...
(Now that was pretentious twaddle BTW, but harmless twaddle I think
you'll find.)
Ian.
On Ap
r 1, 2005 9:10 AM, Matt poot <mattpoot@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Platt,
>
> you said (that is to say, that you say) : Of course, one's evaluation of art
> is largely a matter of personal taste. To debate about it is hopeless if
> your opponent doesn't implicitly
> recognize any difference in its various forms. That said, there still
> remains high and low quality taste, just as there are high and low quality
> ideas, a statement you apparently agree with your reference to "artistic
> sensitivity."
>
> I reply now: I agree with you. I'll also add, that when one has a well
> formed opinion, based on actual trial, rather than general assumption, this
> would be as close to accurate on the subject as you could get.
>
> later, you add: I can only surmise that this refusal to engage means
> there's
> little agreement with Pirsig's premise that societal morality is going
> down hill. If you think rock is artistically equivalent to the symphonic
> music of Bach, Brahms and Beethoven, the chances of your agreeing with
> Pirsig's idea of a declining society is slim indeed.
>
> so, I say now: If you can surmise, that all rock is generic, and not as
> artistically qualitative as the fugues (and preludes) of bach, symphonies of
> beethoven, or operas of Wagner, than I really do need to inform you, that
> there is a much larger variation than you may have possibly selected as an
> ongoing repertoire. Do not also assume that simpler harmonic arrangements
> equate to lower quality music. Also, it is important to factor in the
> significant changes in lyrical , melodic, and rhythmic aspects of the music.
> To my knowledge, even the musical genius of mozart's music can be compared
> to the likes of a group such as Radiohead, which has some exceptionally
> complex music, that is in the "mainstream" audience.
>
> P.S. Just a little note here, I am not aware of any symphonic material
> composed by J.S Bach. Unless your referring to Carl Emanuel's.
>
> I again, urge you to listen to music of the likes of: Yes, and King Crimson
> (my fav two picks) for excellent examples of extremely talented and gifted
> musicians, forming a music to a level of dynamics that is not found the the
> highly structured music of Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, and many other
> "classical" composers.
>
> Also, again, you may watch Pink Floyds "the wall" . although I keep
> repeating myself....
>
> If anyone wants, I'll send them copies of "The Wall (DvD) " or any CD's
> which you may have an otherwise difficult time at acquiring($$$).
>
> I hope you've read this far.
>
> poot
>
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