From: Steve & Oxsana Marquis (marquis@nccn.net)
Date: Mon Apr 04 2005 - 12:33:50 BST
Platt writes:
_______________________
You'll recall Pirsig hesitated to create a new metaphysics because it would
violate the mystic understanding of reality that doesn't require the
divisions necessary for thought. In fact, thinking, according to mystics,
takes you away from, not closer to, reality. But, Pirsig decided to do a
metaphysics anyway, and in order to do it, he had to divide "indivisible"
Quality.
_______________________
Sure.
Platt:
_______________________
Pirsig's paragraph above, and my epigrams, point to indivisible Quality
before the division into Dynamic and static. That's why I called them
"pre-metaphysical."
We may be more fascinated with DQ than SQ. But to think that's so requires
previously cutting Quality into two parts.
_______________________
I just don't see any difference functionally between Q and DQ. To talk
about experience prior to parsing we can only talk about the Whole
(undifferentiated Reality). Now this Wholeness includes all constituents by
definition of being whole. So no matter what patterns we choose to pay
attention to with articulate thought those patterns and as well as ourselves
are still part of this Whole.
To talk about a specific pattern requires a definition, a separating out.
This pattern, this definition, is separate from what? Well, we must have a
label, so we say Q-pattern=DQ. Now we've got our definition. But DQ, no
matter which or how many static patterns of value we separate out with our
attention, doesn't seem to change much does it? The only access to DQ that
I see is exactly the same direct experience that provides access to Q to
begin with. Whether we talk about the ten thousand things or not the Tao
remains the Tao. DQ is a necessary fiction to allow our mind to parse, and
still maintain undifferentiated Quality as reality, that's all IMO.
So, the claim of enchantment with DQ to the detriment of attention to sq I
made earlier can be applied without change to enchantment with
undifferentiated Q. The psychological symptoms are exactly the same. We
prefer the mysterious to the concrete and / or we wish to move to a realm
that does not require justification (only static patterns of value can be
rationally or empirically verified by another).
In all fairness to you Platt, I thought you did mean DQ and you've cleared
that up. Your epigrams do include sq. Still, it seems to me we are
venerating the ineffable a little too much. That is what came across. This
is somewhat like the charge against Pirsig when he first came up with the
Quality idea. Quality cannot be defined so it cannot be critiqued. Nice
move. To continue with my 'Rigel' impersonation, it is all too easy to run
to the mysterious as an escape.
To keep things in perspective both for intellectual respectability as well
as live a Quality (DQ+sq) filled life we need to also pay attention to
static patterns of value. What saves that from looking like warmed over SOM
is Pirsig's multiple truth approach as well as pointing to DQ as the other
half of the theory when needed (or seeking it experientially). There's
still a lot to be said for reasoning, it's just realizing we can apply the
analytical knife however we choose. And that requires doing philosophy, not
philosophology, to refer to my other post. MOQ is not opposed to reasoning,
rather it frees up reasoning, removing it from its self-imposed prison of
pre judgments. No matter how much meditation we do we still use reason to
get to the toilet.
OTOH, without Quality SOM, with its assumption of one truth, and ego is a
deadly combination that leads to attachment to concept. Dynamic Quality is
what keeps the mind clear (suspension of judgment) so reasoning can work
properly. We paint a picture, then throw it away, and then paint another
picture. It is the creative process of painting, not attachment to the
picture, that's important. That's how I see it anyway.
Live Well,
Steve
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