Re: MD Scientific beliefs and religious faith

From: Mark Steven Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Sun Apr 10 2005 - 14:08:17 BST

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    Ian,

    All of my thoughts in this thread are directed toward the argument
    that started it, which is about whether or not scientific assumptions
    are faith-based and, therefore, no different than religious
    assumptions. Please try to keep this in mind before hitting me with
    your ridiculous, half-baked diatribes.

    Furthermore, I find your reference to your level of education a
    rather childish appeal to authority. I've rigorously avoided
    referring to my own credentials in these discussions for just this
    reason, but it would appear that you are about half as well educated
    as I. Now, doesn't that sound silly?

    If you don't have time to carefully contribute to this discussion, at
    least, please, tone down the insults.

    Thanks,

    Mark Steven Heyman (msh)

    -- 
    InfoPro Consulting - The Professional Information Processors
    Custom Software Solutions for Windows, PDAs, and the Web Since 1983
    Web Site: http://www.infoproconsulting.com
    "The shadows that a swinging lamp will throw,
    	We come from nowhere and to nothing go."
    On 10 Apr 2005 at 13:49, ian glendinning wrote:
    Matt, Sam,
    sam said:
    If a scientist or engineer 'doesn't really care whether or not their
    belief is correct' then they don't really care about the outcome.
    msh replied:
    No.  The outcome is ALL they care about.  They wanna land that
    spacecraft, complete that circuit, build that bridge.  What they
    don't care about is the literal truth of their assumptions.  In
    fact, they care so little about the "truth" of the assumptions that,
    if the assumptions get in the way of orbiting the satellite, they 
    will
    DROP the assumptions.   This is pragmatism in action.
    If either of you actually believe either of those statements, then 
    you
    are sadly misguided by a gross caricature of reality.
    I am a professional engineer BSc(Eng) MIMechE, WWeldI, for over 30
    years, and an MBA qualified experienced manager in industry, and I 
    can
    assure you few engineers (or scientists, or managers) have such a
    narrow, blinkered, careless, thoughtless view of the world. You are
    creating a disagreement where there is none and spreading the false
    memes in the process.
    Get real. Give someone other than philosophers credit. At least Sam
    started with "if" and is therefore not wrong in what he says in that
    sentence.
    The "spacecraft landing" is only a "part" of the outcome - go read
    Pirsig and his motorcycle maintenance analogies to understand good,
    quality engineering (or good, quality anything). Go read my review of
    Dawkins and the 10,000 rivets flying in close formation thanks to a
    plane-load of social anthropologists. Why make such a colourful world
    so black and white ? Repeat after me "There is no dichotomy".
    Ian
    On Apr 10, 2005 10:40 AM, Mark Steven Heyman
    <markheyman@infoproconsulting.com> wrote:
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