Re: MD Access to Quality

From: Mark Steven Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Tue Apr 12 2005 - 15:23:19 BST

  • Next message: Mark Steven Heyman: "Re: MD Scientific beliefs and religious faith"

    Hi Platt,

    On 10 Apr 2005 at 22:38, Platt Holden wrote:

    msh said:
    It goes to the question of motive? Do I have to come over there and
    hide your TV clicker?

    platt:
    Do I have to bear the brunt of your non-sequitors?

    msh says:
    Sorry. I guess I was being too subtle. I meant you're watching too
    much television, especially of the Dick Wolfe variety, you know
    CourtTV, Law and Order.

    msh:
    Dictators (as well as plutocrats like Bush and company) often act
    in the NAME of morality, but the real reason is fear of losing their
    power. But what does the behavior of dictators have to do with the
    assumptions made by scientists? This conversation is becoming quite
    surreal, not that there's anything wrong with that...

    platt:
    Your assigned fear as the motive for religious faith and thus found
    religious faith useless. I'm merely pointing out that it's fear of
    those who profess religious faith that motivates godless dictators to
    assume moral superiority, at the point of a gun, and that it was your
    "useless" religious faith that has helped to bring them down. In
    other words, religious assumptions can be as "pragmatic" as
    scientific ones, for nations as well as individuals.

    msh says:
    This is actually a tenable counter-argument. I'm impressed.
    However, unless you are claiming that people choose to believe in God
    in order to bring down brutal dictators, and other such pragmatic
    reasons, you're still off-point. How many religious people would say
    they believe in God for reasons like this? I'm not claiming that
    faith-based beliefs never contribute to practical outcomes, only that
    people don't make the leap of fath for practical reasons.

    msh says:
    Who doesn't know? Maybe you don't know, but Davies quite clearly
    DOES understand the nature of such events.

    And he presents scientific evidence for his belief, including data
    and mathematics that can be evaluated by others. So, whether he's
    right or wrong, his belief rests on logical proof and material
    evidence.

    platt:
    To say something happens "spontaneously" is hardly logical proof
    based on material evidence.

    msh says:
    The concepts of spontaneity and uncertainty are mathematically
    derived and can be empirically verified. If you can't see that this
    is different from a fath-based understanding then I guess we're just
    gonna have to let it go.

    Thanks,
    Mark Steven Heyman (msh)

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