From: Sam Norton (elizaphanian@kohath.wanadoo.co.uk)
Date: Tue Apr 26 2005 - 17:03:38 BST
Hi all,
Another two pennies in this thread (which seems to have travelled a LONG way
from the MoQ)
> msh:
> Here's the unasked for clarification: Catholics who believe in
> transubstantion are NOT being metaphorical, or even poetic.
The spirit of Mr Clinton hovers in the background: 'it depends on what the
meaning of "is" is'......
So let us return to the question of substance and accidents, which, despite
great philosophical learning, seems to be being missed. The substance of a
thing is the defining attribute of that thing, it is what makes it what it
is (the essence). This is separate to the accidents, being the perceptible
qualities like length, weight, colour, texture etc which are not essential
to making a thing what it is. Scientific investigation (as opposed to
philosophical) is wholly and exclusively concerned with the accidents.
The doctrine of transubstantiation asserts that the substance of bread and
wine changes at the consecration, and that the accidents remain unchanged.
Let's listen to the primary authority, Mr Aquinas:
"It is evident to sense that the accidents of bread and wine remain after
the consecration. And this is reasonably done by divine providence...
because it is not customary, but horrible, for men to eat human flesh, and
to drink blood. And therefore Christ's flesh and blood are set before us to
be partaken of under the species of those things which are the more commonly
used by men, namely, bread and wine."
(S.T. III Q75 A5)
So even a catholic doesn't think that the bread has turned into human flesh.
What Pirsig says in Lila is false - or, if I'm being charitable, seriously
misleading.
> Here's what Witt had to say:
>
> "If you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, stop talking
> and ask, then listen..." - Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-
> Philosophicus
Good advice, (including for Pirsig) but I couldn't find the reference in my
copy ;-)
Cheers
Sam
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