From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Wed May 11 2005 - 14:12:19 BST
> Ant McWatt comments:
> There’s only really been one conservative contributor and for all his
> right-wing propaganda since 1997 I hope he’s receiving a handsome salary
> from somewhere.
Only one conservative contributor? Surely you jest. Currently both Sam and
Ham have identified themselves as conservatives, and in the past there were
Roger, Glenn and others. With your assertion that there has only been one
conservative contributor to this site, your credibility on other matters becomes
suspect -- not good, especially for academic. But, rather than jump to
that conclusion, I'll presume you were just funning.
> Platt stated May 9th:
> Like me, they have found plenty in Pirsig's philosophy to support
> right-wing ideas, the most notable being the MOQ's view that freedom is the
> highest value of all.
> Ant McWatt comments:
> The important difference is – and this keeps going over your head just like
> a dog continually shown a card trick - is that the MOQ view of freedom is
> different from the capitalist view of freedom. Let’s repeat our mantra
> together for the benefit of the slower members of the congregation: “the
> MOQ view of freedom is different from the capitalist view of freedom.”
Let's repeat for the leftist members of the congregation who arrogantly
consider themselves to be intellectually superior to all others,
especially conservatives. The MOQ view of freedom is THE SAME AS the
capitalist view of freedom, as Pirsig explains:
"A free market is a
Dynamic institution. What people buy and what people sell, in other words
what people value, can never be contained by any intellectual formula. What
makes the marketplace work is Dynamic Quality. The market is always
changing and the direction of that change can never be predetermined. The
Metaphysics of Quality says the free market makes everybody richer by
preventing static economic patterns from setting in and stagnating economic
growth. That is the reason the major capitalist economies of the world
have done so much better since World War II than the major socialist
economies. It is not that Victorian social economic patterns are more
moral than socialist intellectual economic patterns. Quite the opposite.
They are less moral as static patterns go.”
Definition of capitalism: "an economic system characterized by private and
corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined
by private decision, and by prices, production and the distribution of
goods that are determined mainly by competition in a FREE MARKET."
(Merriam Webster)
Get it? CAPITALISM/FREE MARKET. CAPITALISM/FREE MARKET.
CAPITALISM/FREE MARKET. Write it on the blackboard 100 times.
> Platt stated May 9th:
> Few conservatives have time to contribute regularly to this site because
> they are fully engaged in doing and have little time left over for talking.
> Ant McWatt comments:
> Christ, this made me laugh. You do know that lies make Baby Jesus cry,
> don’t you Platt?
As for lies, see the "only one conservative" lie above.
> The truth about the matter is that serious left-wing
> people tend to be better quality thinkers, more tolerant, more caring, more
> liberal, more generous with their time.
Et tu, Ant? Another self-appointed fully-realized human? Ah, the arrogance
of you liberals never ceases to amaze. You guys are the embodiment of the
phrase, "Pin a rose on me."
> Anyway, any right-winger worthy of the name uses philosophy books only as
> doorstops and has a number of underpaid lackeys working hard to make him a
> big profit while he is trundling around his local golf course. ;-)
Ant follows along along the path blazed by MSH and DMB of invective,
slander, and personal attack.
> Platt stated May 9th:
> Pirsig attempted to "combine" capitalism and socialism and proposed
> intellectual control of the economy in the name of "fairness?." That's news
> to me. Can you supply some quotes to support that conclusion?
> Ant McWatt comments:
> Yes, I can. For instance, see the following paragraphs from Chapter 17 of
> LILA:
Ant then quotes at length from Chap. 17 in which the words "fair" or
"fairness" are conspicuous by their absence, followed by a lame attempt
to connect the idea that Pirsig is keen on fairness to the obvious fact
that both static and dynamic patterns are necessary.
Ant then claims that intellectual control can prevent social degeneracy:
> “This creates the problem of getting maximum freedom for the emergence of
> Dynamic Quality while prohibiting degeneracy from destroying the
> evolutionary gains of the past. [THIS MEANS USING INTELLECTUAL CONTROL TO
> PREVENT DEGENERACY]
But Pirsig says intellect is, at best, unreliable: "The mechanisms by
which a balanced society grows and does not degenerate are difficult, if
not impossible, to define."
Finally, Ant suggests I read books about Buddhism. Thanks, but I have no
problem on this site sticking to the MOQ of Robert Pirsig, using the
textual evidence of his writings. If you want to get into Buddhism, I
presume there are plenty of other sites that will welcome you into the
monastery. :-)
Best,
Platt
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Wed May 11 2005 - 14:12:02 BST